Guest fstop Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 This weekend I am filming an expensive day for night car stunt- we are paying by the hour and I need to get the shot done first time with one camera (DVCAM but no monitor allowed on the location) - I'm also co-producing and to tell you the truth, I'm TERRIFIED. On any show with a budget, this kind of stuff could be given to the second unit- I want those days now!!! :( There's also the insurance issue too (taking a car onto private land to be driven by a professional driver performing a 360 degree skid). Do any of you have any advice or comfort you could offer me? Have you had similar experiences where you just wish it was over and done? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Michael Nash Posted November 22, 2004 Premium Member Share Posted November 22, 2004 Who says you can't have a monitor, and why? It seems very strange to say the least that you can get set up for a car stunt, but can't set up a monitor :blink: . In any case, even without a monitor you should get mulitple cameras to cover a one-time stunt. Partly for safety of getting the shot, partly for extra coverage. Stunts typically appear more exciting when they can be cut together from different angles. The fact that you're shooting DVCAM is a plus; you should be able to get matching or close-to-matching cameras quite easily. You could even put a small consumer MiniDV camera somewhere close to the action in a lock-off (AKA "crash" cam), and maybe one inside the car somewhere. When these shots are quickly cut together you won't notice the mis-match in picture quality so much. You also should plan on doing the stunt more than once, unless you feel sure you got great stuff the first time. Talk to the stunt driver and stunt coordinator about how long it takes to get reset to go again, and see what you and the first AD can do to facilitate the reset. A 360 skid in a car isn't THAT big a deal to perform, once the driver and coordinator have the safety and driving issues worked out for the first run. Don't stress yourself out by putting unreasonable limitations on yourself. Make sure you've got the coverage (i.e. camera positions), make sure the safety concerns are taken care of, and make sure you have enough time to do it right, and do it safely. If you're sweating the cost per hour for the stunt, consider the cost to the production if you don't get the shot you need, or worse the human cost if someone gets hurt. And if the location doesn't allow you to do it the right way, find another location. Especially in a DFN shot, there's got to be a way to re-stage the stunt somewhere else with a stand-in location. It's done all the time. There was athread here not too long ago where someone staged a 180 skid by mounting the car on a turntable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fstop Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 (edited) Thanks Michael. Unfortunately we can't afford two cameras- that's an impossibility, and plus the shot is storyboarded for one overhead WIDE angle all in one so it'd be a moot point anyway! The set-up is going to be quite long for the stunt people (the police no less!) who have to flood the ground, oil it up, and we are getting there a bit eariler to set up- the car we have got out for the day (needs to be rear wheel drive only and also has to meet the specifics of the script- it's a jazzy BM) has to be padded up with special tyres and the guy we're getting it off won't want it splashed in oil too many times I know that (he's coming along to watch the action too)! It was very difficult to find the right kind of car too, one with RWD and also suited the design of the short on a TIGHT budget, as such I'd like to get it right first time so we don't risk the possibility of this guy's car conking out on us splashed in oil with NO replacement... You asked about the monitor: it's outdoors in the UK on what is going to be a very wet and windy day and we need as little set up time as possible, plus we can't afford a generator for the location. I think my biggest concerns are regarding the insurance and having all the loopholes against us sealed by Friday rather than the actual photography. Bare in mind that is real BELOW the first rung stuff. Edited November 22, 2004 by fstop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Brennan Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 Tim contact me off list, I may be able to help Mike Brennan vista at ntlworld.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Nyankori Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 I have two power inverters one is a 65w deal that I purchased from BigLots, a wholesale discount store for $7, I should have bought a dozen of them as now they are not available at Biglots though I have seen them for $40 at the apple store. I also have a 300w inverter I bought from Radio Shack following a long shoot day when I forgot to charge the batteries for the followig day. Point is: I have used either of these to power a 13" tv as a monitor for my dvx100. We managed to have a monitor all day though we had to jump start my truck. Everyone concerned will thank you for the monitor even if its a crappy $100 tv. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Tony Brown Posted November 23, 2004 Premium Member Share Posted November 23, 2004 Seems really dumb that you can afford the stunt but you can't afford a second cheap camera. Can you afford to do the stunt again if you get a camera / tape fault? A very strange set of priorities. As you are co producing I'd have a serious word with yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Phil Rhodes Posted November 23, 2004 Premium Member Share Posted November 23, 2004 Hi, I'll second Mr. Brown's comments. Definitely try to find some additional cameras, even if they're just going to be XL1s or something. Also: > You asked about the monitor: it's outdoors in the UK on what is going to be a very wet and windy day > and we need as little set up time as possible, plus we can't afford a generator for the location. Use an inverter, a battery powered monitor, whatever, but you definitely need a monitor! I'll be shooting outside in Brighton this very evening and you'd better believe I'll have monitoring! As Mr. Brown said, very odd set of priorities. Even if the main shot's overhead, I guarantee you - and I am much more experienced as an editor than I am as a camera operator - that you will want to top and tail it with alternate angles. In any case if it's a reasonably straightforward non-smashup car stunt that you can presumably do a few times, you should be able to get plenty of coverage. Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate Downes Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 And people call me crazy for shooting film? At least I have up to 5 cameras to give me full coverage no matter what the stunt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fstop Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 I can't afford two cameras. Period. And that's not counting all the extra accessories needed for a second camera. What part of that can't you guys understand? I don't have the thousands of $ you guys are use to working with- hell I don't even have the hundreds!! Didn't you ever have a time when you were right at the bottom, working under £1000 and having to scrimp, budget to death, save and make the most of what you have? It's all very well stating the obvious ideals, but if you were here you'd be in the exact same situation with NO alternative. If you have all the money in the world, fine, just don't ASSUME this pennyless student is in the same boat, thanks. Our car stunt is just under £100 for an hour (and yes, I'd call that alot of money for myself coming out of my own pocket), there's going to be no more than two, full stop. We can't really afford the second hour either. The insurance part is the real issue which is still being sorted, but we don't even have a replacement car if this one boo-boos which is my MAIN concern, hence I'd like to get it done right in the intitial runs. Alternate angles we'll get if we can (although it has been storyboarded to match up with shots done elsewhere of the car on a real road). Phil- thanks for the heads up on the battery powered monitor! GREAT idea :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Brad Grimmett Posted November 24, 2004 Premium Member Share Posted November 24, 2004 Sometimes if you can't afford to do something right, then you can't afford to do it at all. That's not meant as a jab, because I understand that you're a student with a very limited budget. But sometimes it's good to look at these things in pre-production and figure out if you'll be able to properly afford to shoot certain parts of a project with the budget you have. Sometimes you just have to say, "We can't afford it." It's good to over-achieve, but it can get you in trouble sometimes if you're not realistic. In any case, good luck with the shoot. Hopefully it works out well for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Nyankori Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 fstop, You gotta do what you gotta do; I think you are just getting advice from people whom have had just about anything and everything go wrong and they just want to help you avoid failure. But as I said "You gotta....". I wish my student projects had car stunts; I think I had less balls than money to do them. Good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate Downes Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 Hrm? Who says I have thousands, or even hundreds, to work with? I bought a half dozen Super8 film cams for under $50 total, and a roll of film for each brings the total to $100 including processing. Each camera can be run by 1 person, thanks to the simple operation of most low-end Super8 cams on the market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Salzmann Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 I agree that at least a second camera is a very good idea. Seeing that this is a DVCam shoot it seems that this shouldn't be all that difficult to find. Even a student that had a camera and was looking for some on-set experience would maybe sort you out. I know how breadline budget filmmaking can be like. That being said, necessity is the mother of invention... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fstop Posted November 29, 2004 Share Posted November 29, 2004 FYI- The stunt went fine btw and in the end I had an hours worth of takes, even though I'd prepared for the worst, many phone calls to insurance firms and specific RWD car owner guilds across the country not to mention design refining (the art directors inavailability absence and no money/time for camera tests, recces or tech rehearsals) and COMPROMISE worked it all out. I learned a ton this weekend of irreplacable knowledge reagarding design, car scenes and night footage, specifically artistic licence and when to say NO to a director in terms of supporting their vision and WHY. I am not too chuffed with the photographic result as I had an on-set instinct to make it a warmer early morning (it's the climatic moment of the night set film) but the editor feels my instincts were right on this one! I'm definitely entering my "evolving the pallette" stage and even if the shot doesn't work. Ah, the joys of OWNING the production you shoot! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Phil Rhodes Posted November 29, 2004 Premium Member Share Posted November 29, 2004 Hi, > you ever have a time when you were right at the bottom, working under £1000 > and having to scrimp, budget to death, save and make the most of what you > have? Yes, I'm there right now, and I don't do big car stunts. Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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