Guest Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 wow phil, you sure are negative. hope not everybody in the uk is like you, otherwise it's going to be a very very dark future... and i am sure not everybody is like you :) I've said 100 times, Phil should be the head of the UK tourism board!! :lol: Sorry Phil, you know we all love you. R, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Phil Rhodes Posted February 1, 2009 Premium Member Share Posted February 1, 2009 Stuff the future, it's very very dark right now. P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Steven Beverly Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 Well, you know what Mao Tse-Tung said, "it's always darkest before it's totally black" :rolleyes: If all that stuff you said about working in England is true that's depressing and maybe that's one of the reasons the film industry in the UK is in the dumper. I've seen some beautiful work come out of the British isles and it would be nice to see more. I don't really understand why film production in general throughout the world has gone down, cable needs product and there are a bazzilion channels so why are they all showing the same movies on different nights over and over again? Crazy. :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgar Dubrovskiy Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 Invariably. Or rather, the people putting out the ads are. See this board, among others. P That's interesting. I honestly never knew about this. But then, how do Arri and Panavision are happy to take young people for 'work experience' for a week? They don't pay. Surely, there is some kind of a workaround... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Phil Rhodes Posted February 2, 2009 Premium Member Share Posted February 2, 2009 But then, how do Arri and Panavision are happy to take young people for 'work experience' for a week? They don't pay. Probably because the law is very poorly enforced. Perhaps we can get someone from one of those companies to comment here. The only get-outs really are related to work experience as part of a course, that is, something that's assessed and graded and which you have to pass in order to get a qualification. P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Martin Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 Being a UK student, "work experience" is something we all have to do, however it likely only counts if your academic institution has arranged it. As has been pointed out, employment laws are sadly very poorly enforced here, not helped at all right now by the pissant economy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Fernando Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 Well, you know what Mao Tse-Tung said, "it's always darkest before it's totally black" : My grandmother used to say, "Darkest is the night when moring is near." I think I'll take that one, instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Paul Bruening Posted February 2, 2009 Premium Member Share Posted February 2, 2009 I recall my mother's wisdom. It often went something like this: "How many times do I have to tell you? Clean up your damn room!" "What is this? What is this? God did not put me on this earth to clean up after you!" "I work my fingers to the bone and this is the 'thanks' I get!" "Don't mind me. I don't matter. Take care of yourself. I'll get by somehow!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Martin Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 The best one for mother's wisdom, of course, is the timeless "Where did I lose it?" I regret that only now I have the ability (and the courage) to verbalise the fact that if I knew where I "lost" it, it would by definition not be lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 Well, you know what Mao Tse-Tung said, "it's always darkest before it's totally black" :rolleyes: If all that stuff you said about working in England is true that's depressing and maybe that's one of the reasons the film industry in the UK is in the dumper. I've seen some beautiful work come out of the British isles and it would be nice to see more. I don't really understand why film production in general throughout the world has gone down, cable needs product and there are a bazzilion channels so why are they all showing the same movies on different nights over and over again? Crazy. :( Yep, programming is the biggest single line item for a TV network. And when ad sales drop you've got to cut your programming budget. Look at all the crap garbage reality shows respectable networks keep tossing out. What happened to the Mini Series? No more Shogun, Roots, Masada, I guess the economics for those projects don't work any more? I guess the scarier thing is the size of the audience shows like Dancing With The Stars can generate, who do we blame more the programming execs or the public that watches this idiotic programming? :blink: R, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Steven Beverly Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 Good freakin point. I don't know, maybe it's just a phase. Back in the 50s game shows were all the rage then in the 60s they went mainly to daytime fare. It could be because cable has eaten up some much advertising revenue and audience that there's less pie to share so they have to go cheap. I don't even watch network TV anymore. I'd rather watch movies on cable. B) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serge Teulon Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 For the person that needs the break to get something on the cv, this system might not be such a bad thing. Hey, I had to do freebies in the beginning to just get something on my cv and I didn't resent it! I still do them now if the script is good, people are cool, catering is good and I've got nothing in the pan. More importantly it's a system that separates the ones that just fancy having a pop at our industry(as they think its cool and glamorous) from the ones that actually really love it. Whilst it also teaches you how difficult our environment is, which in turn makes that individual less likely to take it for granted when they get a job in. There is however a real fine line between earning-your-stripes and having the piss taken out of....but I think that the choice always lies with the individual. Additionally and finally I find that the problem in the UK is that there isn't a body, like the union in the states, so we haven't got a voice or any power. That is until you've gained such a strong rep in the industry that producers and directors can't see past you as the one and only individual for the job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Phil Rhodes Posted February 3, 2009 Premium Member Share Posted February 3, 2009 I still do them now if the script is good, people are cool, catering is good and I've got nothing in the pan. Not in London, I wager. The combination of those things in this town is so rare as to be practically mythical. P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raphael Morris Posted February 4, 2009 Author Share Posted February 4, 2009 (edited) He also has a sharp eye for chancers. If you can afford 35, you can afford 16 and pay the damned crew. Asking people to work for free, even if you call it volunteering or internship or collaboration or any of the other weasel words, is illegal in the UK. P are you a cop or a dop? this isn't a job it's a project. The law for no unpaid work is there for a good reason and that's to stop companies taking advantage of people with false promises and the offer of 'work experience' when instead it's donkey work. I've worked for production companies for free and felt used because I got nothing back and I understand why that is pretty immoral. On the other hand I've worked on some 35mm student projects for free and gained a lot from it - if i'd asked to be paid all I would have heard is 'next'. The project is independent, it is low budget and it has huge potential. Any kind of 'payment' involves an exchange and combination of talent to make something that'll benefit everyone involved. Would a dedicated crew rather be paid a minimum wage for a week and have a result that looks like it was made for 3 pennies? Expenses and food already add up... A salary or at least deferred payment on a feature is more reasonable because at least a feature has a chance of making money. A good short functions as something to be proud of and a very effective business card to all those involved, that is all. Anyone wanting to be involved in a project they believe in and who have any kind of dedication to the medium will consider working without salary anyway - I know I would and do. If they are not willing to consider this at all then maybe they are not someone you should really work with. In any case I thank all those interested in the project. Edited February 4, 2009 by Raphael Morris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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