Newbie to 35mm with some questions

[Ernie Zahn]

Hi, I've been shooting Super 8 for about 10 years now and 16mm only seriously for about a year. I was interested in getting into 35mm but I have a few questions:

 

1) Projectors: Are there any consumer size projectors for say 400 ft capacity that type of thing or just those huge monstrosities you see in movie theatre projection rooms.

 

2) Cameras, I can't imagine a whole lot of people own 35mm cameras, I picture it more being a bigger renting industry. Am I right in saying that? Or are there afforadable (ant where from $50-$1000) 35mm movie cameras out there.

 

3) What is the soundtrack technology for release prints? It was optical and still is for certain projects I suppose but it can't be the same as on 16mm can it? I mean like new movies in DTS etc, there has to more than two tracks.

 

I guess alot of what I'm trying to learn is how differnt of a business is this compared to Super 8 and 16mm. I know how much more the film stock costs, and I've seen cameras and projectors before, are many people in the 35mm world people that work with this stuff and simply have access to it or is there a lower end of 35mm technology affordable for all of us? Any insight would be much apreciated.

Regards,

Ernie

[zrszach]

You are more likely to own an MOS camera than a sync camera.

There are some good MOS cameras you can get in that price range. Arri III, 2c, and 235 can all be had for fewer than fifty thousand. The only problem is that you also need accessories and parts for the camera to be usable, mags and lenses are just some of the things you will obviously need. But really owning an MOS camera or any other camera is really a dissension that should be made biased on how much you will use it and if it will pay for itself at any time in the near future. You have to find a way to justify spending that kind of money. Just stick to renting until there is enough work or you feel it is the right time to invest in a camera.

 

I wrote this and then saw that you said $50 to $1000. I thought you said $1000 to $50000. <_<

 

I don?t think buying a $1000 dollar 35mm camera is a good idea. :huh:

 

 

-Zach-

[Ernie Zahn]

Thanks for the help. And I didn't think they'd be at around 1,000 just thought I'd ask if there were some kind of 35mm camera equa to an instamatic. But then again you never know if you can something in working condtion for really cheap at Flea Markets. Once in Chelsea I saw a nice print of The Pink Panther on 35mm, good color the guy wanted $10 bucks a reel! That's around $60 for the whole thing! Can you believe it! It was in such good condition too! Too bad I was broke at the time :( And it wouldn't have been easy to lug those reels on the subway. Anyway thanks or the help.

[Dominic Case]

3) What is the soundtrack technology for release prints?

ALl 35mm release prints have an optical analogue soundtrack, usually Dolby-encoded, so that the 2 bias lines on the track carry 4 channels (left, centre, right, surround).

 

In addition most prints (invariably for commercial features etc) carry 3 different formats of digital sound, of which 2 are printed optically. The digital systems are usually 5.1 sound but can carry up to 8 tracks.

 

Dolby SRD track is a digital pattern printed between the perfs on the same side of the film as the analogue track.

 

Sony SDDS track is a digital pattern printed on both sides of the film outside the perfs.

 

DTS is played from a CD-ROM which is synchronised to the inmage by a control track which is optically printed between the analogue track and the image.

 

All 4 formats are printed from a single optical sound negative. Prints carry all of them because (a) theatres may have one digital system or may have another, and (B) all digital systems break down, or the signal fails to resolve from time to time, and unlike analogue tracks which sound bad but are still playable, if the digital isn't perfect then it's not there at all. So all the digital systems revert to good old analogue backup if they fail.

[GeorgeSelinsky]

Thanks for the help. And I didn't think they'd be at around 1,000 just thought I'd ask if there were some kind of 35mm camera equa to an instamatic. But then again you never know if you can something in working condtion for really cheap at Flea Markets.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well, the closest you can get to the 35mm version of an instamatic is the Bell and Howell Eyemo. Those can go for under $1000. But the camera is non-reflex, the lenses are old, the camera is clunky (although quite portable), it uses a mere 1 minute load of film (though magazines are available, but they're a nuisance), and it has a windup spring that runs a little over 20 seconds per winding. The Russian Konvas is the next step up, which goes for around 1-2K and is reflex with more decent glass, has an electric motor and 200 (and some models, 400') mags.

 

Cameras like the Konvas and the Arri IIa/b/c are good enough to do some serious work with, but that's if you intend to dub the sound later or don't need to record sync at all. I'm shooting a feature with my IIc right now (runs about 5-7 grand).

 

- G.

[Rolfe Klement]

I would first make a decision about why you want a camera and a projector - what are you intending to do with it -

 

Check out some of the posts on the 35mm section about it - stuff like

 

http://www.cinematography.com/forum2004/in...p?showtopic=256

 

then rule number one - get someone else to pay for it - rule 2 - they will only do that if there is a great script (at least that is what I have heard :-)

 

thanks

 

Rolfe Klement

www.creativesunshine.com

[John Pytlak RIP]

Once in Chelsea I saw a nice print of The Pink Panther on 35mm, good color the guy wanted $10 bucks a reel! That's around $60 for the whole thing! Can you believe it! It was in such good condition too! Too bad I was broke at the time :(  And it wouldn't have been easy to lug those reels on the subway. Anyway thanks or the help.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Sorry, any 35mm print you find for sale likely has come through illegal channels. :unsure: Distributors usually specify "certified destruction" of old used 35mm release prints to prevent piracy or unauthorized showings. Some of these prints find their way into the collectors market after "falling off the back of the truck". :rolleyes:

[John Pytlak RIP]

Generally, if you decide to shoot 35mm film, you are doing it to obtain the image quality and "look" it offers. 35mm release prints are almost always intended for theatrical release, with well over 100,000 theatre screens worldwide equipped to show 35mm prints. It is a well standardized and accepted system, with a very established worldwide infrastructure of film stocks, labs, post-production, and theatres.

 

There are portable 35mm projectors, some fairly high-end like the Arri LocPro used for location screenings. Many home theatre enthusiasts use 35mm theatrical equipment, but usually don't need a very large lamp to fill the smaller screens typical of a home environment.

[GeorgeSelinsky]

I would first make a decision about why you want a camera and a projector - what are you intending to do with it

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The thing is that 35mm projectors are huge cumbersome beasts, they're usually not like those nice 16mm projectors that you can put on a table top and show stuff in your basement with, a la Elmo's, or B&H's, or Kodak Pageants.

 

The only 35mm projectors you'll probably find within an affordable range are some old projectors from the 20's and 30's off of ebay. I think they had some semi "portable" military models, forgot which companies made them (don't think bell and howell though). They are all for the most part old as all hell, not like the newer 16mm projectors you're probably used to that were made in the 50's, 60's, 70's, and onwards...

 

Also, most beginning shooters like to shoot on reversal and project that straight, you can't do that in 35mm (well, you COULD shoot the 5285 Ektachrome and get it processed - at quite a large cost). Otherwise you have to get a print made and that runs a pretty high coin in 35mm.

 

I own 2 35mm cameras but don't own any projectors. If I need a projector I go to the lab and use their projectionist. Otherwise I get a video transfer done, that's really the only feasible way to go for me.

 

- G.

Edited December 6, 2004 by GeorgeSelinsky

[John Pytlak RIP]

If you are shooting 35mm film and making prints for personal use and to show your friends, most theatres are happy to rent a 35mm auditorium during off hours. What better place to see your movie than in a theatre? Most production centers have screening rooms for rent.

 

A local Rochester filmmaker Nick DiBella (who also directed several demo films for Kodak) screened many of his early films at rented theatres:

 

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0225109/

[K Borowski]

If you are shooting 35mm film and making prints for personal use and to show your friends, most theatres are happy to rent a 35mm auditorium during off hours.  What better place to see your movie than in a theatre?  Most production centers have screening rooms for rent.

 

Sounds like a great idea John! At the same time though, I'd highly recommend that if you're going to get dailies or showings at a theatre that you make sure that their projectors don't eat film. Boy have I seen some sorry examples lately. It's pretty sad and all too common that you'll see prints in just as bad of condition at $9/show theatres as you will at $0.50 discount theatres. In fact, I'd say that our local discount theatre does a better job at keeping prints in good condition than some of the more expensive venues. Better watch a couple shows at a theatre before you ask them to run your precious film.

 

Regards.

~Karl Borowski

[Justin Hayward]

The precious film dailies are a positive work print. It might not be the end of the world if something unfortunate happens to them. The negative should be safely stored away underneath a pile of donuts at the lab.

 

If I had the privilege to view film dailies, I would appreciate any theater that allowed it, no matter what the cost. Sorry to say, for me, this has never been an issue.