Bringing Art Back Into Movies

[Guest Ultra Definition]

Freeze movie ticket prices.

 

Create a board of the best filmmakers that care about quality of film, not about profit. Have them judge all releases and the bigger trash it is, the more you tax it, up to 30%. This tax money will go to creation of art films, quality films, films that do not promote pure violance, films that will enrich the society's culture.

 

Don't allow a star to make more than union wages. Let them work for love of the artform; they'll make enough extra $, or rather millions, promoting junk food, or whatever.

 

I'm in the Czech Republic right now and the box office here is taxed 10% flat and this tax money goes straight into quality film production. Maybe this is something that we could copy, plus some. It does not any sense that an actor should get tens of percent of the movie budget, which usually translates to tens of percent of the movie profit.

 

Of course it is a little more complicated than that but I'd love to see something like this.

[Jason Maeda]

dude, this is america. we dont want art to be controlled by a governing body of tax-levying overloards. :)

 

no one forces people to go to hollywood movies as far as i know. the fact that everyone has such strong opinions about them is testament to their very success.

 

like i always say, show me another country with a better track record for great film. france? maybe. been watching french film the last ten years? iran? yeah the three movies you've seen are great. sweden? italy? south africa? australia? brazil? canada? russia? india? china? japan? korea? taiwan?

 

people, hollywood produces 95% crap and 5% quality film...just like everyone else.

jk :ph34r:

 

p.s. no one hates the crazy heirarchy of imagined artistic contribution that places actors above so many great craftsman (and puts the sound designer somewhere just below the caterer) than i do. but if it should change it will, natutrally. supply and demand is still the guiding principle of our economic system and apparently it is pretty hard to find a cinematographer whose name gaurantees a film 50 million dollars. when that changes tom cruise will be seeing smaller paychecks.

[Bill DiPietra]

Create a board of the best filmmakers that care about quality of film, not about profit. Have them judge all releases and the bigger trash it is, the more you tax it, up to 30%. This tax money will go to creation of art films, quality films, films that do not promote pure violance, films that will enrich the society's culture.

I feel like I'm listening to Plato over here.

[Leon Rodriguez]

How would the board be created? Over here, (USA) they would be elected by the people, the same people that support the 95% non-artistic pictures. An overhelming majority. Which would effectively lose us the 5% of artistic films. I can imagine Cassavettes and Woody Allan et al. holding secret basement screenings that would get busted by the film quality secret police. There's a premise for a screenplay in this! B&W film noir no doubt.

[Guest Ultra Definition]

So you take people that won Oscars; then people that sat on Cannes jurry. You have them cast their ballot secretly so no one knows which way they voted. Sure we all know a few honest filmmakers. If you ask Copola as to who should sit in the jurry, he would love to tell you, and give you an honest answer.

 

Now take the typical movie:

$25K stars

$35K production

$20K promotion

_____________

$80K total

 

If you eliminate the star fees and promotion costs, you end up with $35K budget. You have some money to spend on quality projects which may be selected by similar jurries.

 

This would naturally be the innocent beginning. Then the studios hire a few Columbian boys to square up some of the jurry members that are not on their secret payroll. The CIA thinks that this is a new Middle Eastern trained terrorist group and tries to infiltrate them. The Russians and the Cinesse get suspicious of the new CIA activities. The suspense escalates. One day you wake up and it's The Day After the big one. You live another 40 hours, watch one more VHS movie because electronics in the more modern HD DVD players was too fine to survive. A few million years later the coachroaches rule the world. The radiation altered them genetically and their IQ shot up to 200. They build a perfect society and only produce atristic films. So the project I suggested would work; only it would take some time.

[Mitch Gross]

And I thought some of your ideas on HD made for interesting fantasy... :D :lol:

[Max Jacoby]

And I thought some of your ideas on HD made for interesting fantasy...

Yeah, I nearly pissed myself laughing at the following:

Now take the typical movie:

$25K stars

$35K production

$20K promotion

_____________

$80K total

Now what 'typical' movie would that be? Are you talking about Porn maybe????

[Guest Ultra Definition]

sorry, I meant millions, not thousands

[Leon Rodriguez]

Actually to bring the thread back to a more constructive tone, does anyone know of government grants available for historical, ethical or environmental films? Somewhere there's a grant out there waiting for the script to be written.

[Matt Pacini]

Ultra Definition:

"I'm in the Czech Republic right now and the box office here is taxed 10% flat and this tax money goes straight into quality film production. Maybe this is something that we could copy, plus some."

 

 

(MP):

Yeah, that would be great, and since the Czech Republic makes way more quality movies than anyone else on earth, obviously this works wonders for quality movies.

 

The problem with schemes like this, is that SOMEBODY is set up to define what a good or bad movie, and when that happens, it goes from the public deciding what is best (by simply deciding which movies are worth their money), to some sort of political overseer, and then, favored status ends up being entirely political, instead of quality based.

 

This is the problem in my opinion, of all government financed film organizations; who gets subsidized, depends on connections even more than it is within the film industry.

Sure, there are some great movies that are made from grant money, but I'd have to say that the ratio of crap to gold, is far worse than free-market (Hollywood) films, as is evidenced by the fact that American movies are in more demand in foreign countries, than even their own films, in their own languages.

If our movies are so bad, and the process of how it's decided which movies get made, etc. is so flawed, then why are our movies in higher demand in virtually any country in the world, than their own films?

France has actually had to put quotas on how many American movies can be distributed in their country, that's how good the French public perceives our films to be!

But their government, in a terrifica example of "leftist fascism", has decided what's best for their people, regardless of what the people themselves want or think.

If our films were so bad, then they wouldn't have to do this. The public would just simply not want to watch the films, right?

 

And by the way, I'm sick and tired of people wanting to control human behaviour through taxes, and also, if the stars earn union scale, then guess who gets all that extra money?

The producers of the film.

Now let's have a discussion about why you think producers are infinitely more deserving than the talent, to get all those millions of dollars!

 

Matt Pacini

[Guest Ultra Definition]

Film is art, just like paintings are art and music is art. But there are different levels of art. From the most artistic to commercial, to pure craft and then to something that has nothing to do with art.

 

Film is also entertainment. TV could be art. Is Jerry Springer Show art? No, it's entertainment. So is Howard Stern. Is Ali G art or entertainment? It is both. But the artistic level is very low.

 

Do people like art? Does it really matter if they like art? People have to learn to enjoy art and it does enrich their lives. Unfortunately our materialistic society is the oposite of what art is and the people surround themselves with materialistic not spiritual pleasures. If entertainment is sex, then art is love. When you combine these two, you've created a great film.

 

I would not give the $ to the producers, I would pass it into art film production. That is what I was saying.

 

The French government is an example of leftist fascism? There's no such things. Fascism is rightist.

 

What does a good DP try to bring into the picture? Artistic photography. The art of the film should not end with art photography. Film is a combined art of many artforms. Once you perfect all of them, and fused them in synergy, you have created art. Otherwise it's entertainment, crap, or whatever.

 

My thread has art in its title.

 

Now, I'm here in the Czech Republic on a preproduction stage of a film. And I have high respect for their film. Both Forman and Menzl belong to the greatest film arists in the film history. The country has 10 million peiople, and probably the most beautiful women from anywhere, and not only beautiful, but also very pleasant.

 

The Czechs were the must saught after lecturers at Columbia. They were called the Czech Mafia there. They may still be; Ihave no idea.

 

Once you come down here one day, you'll know what I'm talking about. It's a second film I'm involved with here.

 

Now, how about Polanski? He came from similar country and brought with him to the US a whole new directing style, still quite similar to the style of the Czech directors. Does Spielberg coach actors on acting their roles? No, he does not know how to. Do Copola, Forman, Menzl, Polanskki? Of course. Film is a very complex artform and you'd better understand all the parts if you want to create art.

 

Do we see all the films coming out from the Czech Republic? Of course not. Did you see Incredible Adventures of Solder Chonkin by Menzl. Of course not. It was released in France, but not in the US. It was pure art and pure entertainment.

 

If you know what art is and you'd see everything coming out from Europe, you'd see a lot more art film there then you see here.

 

If you don't know what art is and all you seek is entertainment, then you may not even be a very good DP. But that does not mean that you can't work in Hollywood.

 

It's that simple.

[Jason M Silverman]

Film is also entertainment. TV could be art. Is Jerry Springer Show art? No, it's entertainment. So is Howard Stern. Is Ali G art or entertainment? It is both. But the artistic level is very low.

 

Do people like art? Does it really matter if they like art? People have to learn to enjoy art and it does enrich their lives. Unfortunately our materialistic society is the oposite of what art is and the people surround themselves with materialistic not spiritual pleasures. If entertainment is sex, then art is love. When you combine these two, you've created a great film.

 

Ihe French government is an example of leftist fascism? There's no such things. Fascism is rightist.

"Film is also entertainment. TV could be art. Is Jerry Springer Show art? No, it's entertainment. So is Howard Stern. Is Ali G art or entertainment? It is both. But the artistic level is very low."

 

why can't film be art and entertainment at once? 'film is art, theatre, life, and tv is furniture...'

 

"Do people like art? Does it really matter if they like art? People have to learn to enjoy art and it does enrich their lives. Unfortunately our materialistic society is the oposite of what art is and the people surround themselves with materialistic not spiritual pleasures. "

 

does demand create supply or supply condition demand?

 

"Ihe French government is an example of leftist fascism? There's no such things. Fascism is rightist. "

 

far right and far left are essentially the same thing. just like being 'politically correct' is a form of censorship as well.

 

but, i would contend hollywood could use some reform, just not sure government is the way to do it.

[Guest Chainsaw]

Actually to bring the thread back to a more constructive tone,  does anyone know of government grants available for historical, ethical or environmental films?  Somewhere there's a grant out there waiting for the script to be written.

 

This may not be exactly what you are looking for but it's a start...

 

Film Production Grants and Links

[Bill DiPietra]

Now, how about Polanski? He came from similar country and brought with him to the US a whole new directing style, still quite similar to the style of the Czech directors. Does Spielberg coach actors on acting their roles? No, he does not know how to. Do Copola, Forman, Menzl, Polanskki? Of course. Film is a very complex artform and you'd better understand all the parts if you want to create art.

So according to you, Steven Spielberg doesn't know how to direct actors.

 

Yeah. Okay.

[Guest Ultra Definition]

Of course Spielberg does not know how to direct talent. That's why he does not. He claims that he "trusts them". Each director has a different strenth. Spielberg is very creative, for one thing.

 

So you disagree with my suggestions on getting more art funding from the government; at the sime time you're looking for some; and you made no own suggestions how to fix the situatuion where there is hardly any funding compared to even a lot smaller European countries.

 

I did not say that film can't be art and entertainment. I said the oposite. Read my posts again.

 

Take some political science classes if you want to discuss politics on an inteligent level.

 

If you took an economics class or two, don't apply it here. Take some art classes if you want to understand art. Americans unfortunately are less exposed to art and culture than the Europeans. Take some classes in Europe for one semester. You'll see the difference. Of course you need to educate people about art, not about violance. Have you been to Europe and compared the TV programming to the one in the US?

 

You may think how Hollywood is great because it creates entertainment. I guess to each his own. Someone would like to own a Picasso; someone else bought in Pick n' Save (or whatever it's called now) a picture of a very artistically photographed plate with juicy hamburgers; then proudly displays it in his living room; lights it up with special lighting that he learned about in his photography class and then dies to go to McDonalds so he can devour a few Big Macs, so he'll be full while watching some TV show where they add laughter so he knows what is funny. This guy loves Hollywood movies and thinks that the couple next door that goes see foreign flicks is not normal. If McDonalds is normal, I'm glad you disagree with me, guys. Get it? Probably not. But some of the comments here were on a 5th grade level, 6th at most, of a special ed institution. :P

[Rob Belics]

This all sounds like production and business to me and not cinematography.

[Bill DiPietra]

Get it? Probably not. But some of the comments here were on a 5th grade level, 6th at most, of a special ed institution. :P

Yes, and amazingly, they're all under your name.

 

What are the chances?!?!?

[Guest Ultra Definition]

Bill, so you responded because you thought I was talking about you. I did not even have to mention any names.

[Jarin Blaschke]

This has to be the most bizarre thread I 've ever bothered to follow. What the heck are you talking about?

[Luke Prendergast]

It's an 'art' thread Jarin - you're not supposed to understand it.

[Brad Grimmett]

It's an 'art' thread Jarin - you're not supposed to understand it.

Ha! :lol: Very good.

[Bill DiPietra]

Bill, so you responded because you thought I was talking about you.

Not at all. But some of your posts are so idiotic, I just had to pounce when you left yourself open for that line.

 

I don't usually do that, but when you start putting up some posts that make an ounce of sense, I'll gladly post an intelligent reply.

[Kbenisvy]

Do people like art? Does it really matter if they like art? People have to learn to enjoy art and it does enrich their lives. Unfortunately our materialistic society is the oposite of what art is and the people surround themselves with materialistic not spiritual pleasures.

 

 

You can't just teach people to enjoy art. I am an amateur photographer, I have a friend that paints. When my friends and I get together he will often have some painting or photograph that he has found to show me. We'll talk about it and have a good time, but, some of my other friends just want us to get off the computer so that they can use it. They may not want to be a part of our "art conversation," but, it doesn't make me like them any less, and I don't think that they are ruining their lives this way. They all have their own areas of interest.

 

By forcing people to "appreciate" art you will find that people will enjoy it even less. They don't like being told what to think... nobody does.