Special concerns diffusing with muslin?

[Chris Keth]

I bought some muslin today that I want to bleach and try diffusing with. Are there any special concerns (other than it not being fire retardant) that I should watch out for? I think it should make a pretty good diffusion material...or I can't think of why it wouldn't.

[DavidSloan]

Just make sure the source is filling up the frame, and have fun with it. I love muslin, it's the only source of diffusion that I find to be completely shadowless. I'm sure others will quickly correct me, here. Is there any specific reason you want to bleach it?

[Guest fstop]

To make it brighter!

 

When you bleach, make sure after washing that you RINSE the bleach FIRST and then stick it in the washing machine. If not, the fibres will ROT.

 

I LOVE what Muslin does to skintone colour temperature- Less blue and more white- I love it. Certainly not the only fabric, though... As I said in that other diffusion thread however, I still don't think you can beat bounced for big and soft.

Edited December 9, 2004 by fstop

[Chris Keth]

F-stop, since it sounds like you've bleached it before, how exactly works best for you? Do you just do it in a sink with full strewngth bleach or do you make a solution? Just doing it in the washing machine on cold with no detergent should do it too. Maybe 2 rinse cycles just to make sure?

[DavidSloan]

Of course to make it brighter! doh! I was thinking more in terms of color temp...unbleached is warmer, right?

[Chris Keth]

Just looking at it it is probably a tiny bit warmer but mostly just dirty-white looking. I think bleaching, more than anything else, improves the light transmission.

[Guest fstop]

Yeah it's down to transmission more than anything, not sure about colour temperature though I doubt it. You could try unbleached muslin, I must admit, I've never tried it unbleached as it seems pointless in adding mud to your soft lights!

 

Bunnies,

 

I use to do it in a bucket the same way you do a T-shirt (PLEASE tell me you've bleached your clothing before!). Get on google and do a "bleach my T-shirt"- for shame! ;) Leave it overnight too (just as the best T-shirts are done).

 

I STRONGLY recommend you rinse cold and then machine wash with powder as you would your clothes- I have had problems with both bleach AND shirts not giving them the wash at the end, it's CRUCIAL to stopping the rot.

Edited December 9, 2004 by fstop

[DavidSloan]

Just curious but what did that muslin run you?

[Guest fstop]

cost? It's a couple of £ a metre here from the wholesalers.

[Chris Keth]

Just curious but what did that muslin run you?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

$4.44 a yard at Wal-mart for all-cotton unbleached.

[Jeff Tanner]

You could try unbleached muslin, I must admit, I've never tried it unbleached as it seems pointless in adding mud to your soft lights!

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Pointless? If you like the look of bleached muslin, you would love unbleached. Want a soft source? Use a 10K or 20K tungsten fresnel through a 12x12 unbleached muslin. Now that's some high quality softlight. Want it even softer? Bounce a 20K tungsten fresnel into a 12x12 muslin.

 

I saw Roger Deakins bounce 18K HMI fresnels into 20x20 unbleached muslins for a scene in "Oh Brother Where Art Thou". I remember saying to myself "why in the world use a muslin as a bounce? Seems like more light passes through the fabric than bounces off of it."

 

And then I went inside and looked at the scene and said "Oh... THAT'S why!" It was simply amazing. Mr. Deakins knows a thing or two about lighting.

 

If you have the firepower available there is nothing like an unbleached muslin.

 

Respectfully,

 

Jeff Tanner

[David Mullen ASC]

The only difference between bleached and unbleached muslin is the amount of warmth you get, not the softness. I generally prefer unbleached because I can control warmth through gels or dimmers. Plus for day exteriors, unless the fill is simulating light bouncing off of the ground, I prefer a cooler fill than sunlight. I believe Caleb Deschanel likes to use light blue sheets for bounce fill in day exteriors, for example.

 

Deakins is great. I saw him do a lighting seminar where he pretty much showed that it doesn't matter whether you bounced a light or shone it through diffusion. He did it both ways and got the same look more or less. Which way to go is mainly about practicality on location for him. He's not fond of removing walls even on sets, for example, and would rather bounce the light in small spaces.

 

I used muslin on one recent show to shine a light through it and was surprised that I was getting some hardness in the light when the last time I used muslin, I didn't. This may be a case where bouncing it would be a little softer. I was using 2K open-faced lights. The time before I used muslin it was 5K and 10K fresnels, which I think are better for getting a soft light through diffusion because you don't get a bare halogen bulb leaking through the weave of the muslin. In the case of the open-faced lights behind the frame of diffusion, I think Full Grid or heavy plastic diffusion would have been softer than muslin.

[Riku Naskali]

I bought some muslin, but it doesn't seem to soften the light too much. Maybe I got wrong stuff, can someone post a picture of this muslin you are talking about? You know, things are quite different here in Finland....

[Chris Keth]

I bought some muslin, but it doesn't seem to soften the light too much. Maybe I got wrong stuff, can someone post a picture of this muslin you are talking about? You know, things are quite different here in Finland....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

It's just a thinnish cotton cloth. Something like you might make drapes out of, I guess.

[Chris Keth]

Wow, I used the unbleached stuff to help my girlfriend out a little tonight. She's shooting a self-portrait (she's a photography major) for a class and we put a strobe through about a 4-by area of doubled over muslin and it gave a gorgeous cast to her skin. It was filled and edged by bounce from the white background and a whitecard in front and low. The quality of the light from that is really attractive. I'll post one or two if she doesn't mind (they're nude, but nothing at all frontal).

[Josh Bass]

I know that this is a tricky question when dealing with soft sources, but how much light do you lose (in stops) when using this as diffusion? Is it useless without a really powerful source light?

[Phil Rhodes]

Hi,

 

The stop loss is enormous compared to the unfiltered light because you're dispersing it over a much wider area. It's impossible to say exactly what the loss is as it's so dependent on specifics. Remember that probably more of the light bounces back than goes through, as the muslin isn't very transmissive. The diffuse light will also fall off very much faster than the possibly-collimated beam of whatever you're using to illuminate the diffusion. Lots and lots, essentially.

 

Phil

[Josh Bass]

So if a 1K fresnel, tungsten, is the most powerful thing I have available to me on a regular basis (unless I'm borrowing an HMI, and then, at most, a 1.2K ), not worth screwing with? I'm always interested in playing with new things, if they're relatively inexpensive, but not if it's pointless.

[David Mullen ASC]

For a close-up, a 1K through a 4'x4' frame of muslin (or bounced off of it) close to the actor may be bright enough depending on the ASA / sensitivity of whatever you are shooting with.

 

Look, it's standard operating procedure to have diffusion frames made up of a couple different densities of diffusion just in case the heavy one cuts down too much light. So one might try a Full Grid but swap to a Light Grid if you're not getting enough exposure.

[Bob Hayes]

If you are into soft shadow less material you might want to check out American Market?s 1090. It is like a double 216 and it shows no source what so ever. It comes in rolls so you can only cover a 4x4 frame realistically.