Ashley Wing Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 Dark Comedy looking for DOP. We are looking for an experienced DOP to work on our dark comedy short Robbing Peter. Filming will take place in Devon on the weekend of 16th/17th May, although the DOP does not need to be Devon based as we will pay all travel expenses and provide accommodation Synopsis: When Susan follows her son Matthew into a house he has broken into, she is determined to take him home whatever the cost. Little do either of them realise that the price they have to pay might be their lives as they become unwittingly entangled in a struggle to escape the clutches of a deranged psychopath. We are shooting on the Sony EX1 with the Letus 35 extreme adapter accompanied with a set of Canon FD primes. All locations are interior so we will be blocking windows to give control over lighting set-up. Experience of lighting night scenes an advantage. Due to the self funded nature of this project we can only cover expenses, these include; travel, food, and accommodation. On completion of the project all cast and crew will be provided with a copy of the film and should the film be in receipt of any monies once production costs have been reimbursed, cast and crew will receive a percentage of any profits made. The film will be co-produced and directed by Ashley Wing & Clayton Fussell (http://www.ashleywing.net) & (http://www.claytonfussell.co.uk) More information about their projects can be found on: http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#/group.p...831&ref=mfq Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Phil Rhodes Posted May 7, 2009 Premium Member Share Posted May 7, 2009 Due to the self funded nature of this project we can only cover expenses I'm sure you're aware that, with very limited exceptions, it is illegal to offer unpaid work in the UK. Do any of the exceptions apply to you? If not, you must pay national minimum wage. P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 8, 2009 Share Posted May 8, 2009 I'm sure you're aware that, with very limited exceptions, it is illegal to offer unpaid work in the UK. Do any of the exceptions apply to you? If not, you must pay national minimum wage. P Isn't slavery an exception Phil? I mean come on you didn't know that? :D R, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Rakoczy Posted May 8, 2009 Share Posted May 8, 2009 Illegal to offer unpaid work??? huh? :blink: I would never have been able to build my reel which then got me paid shows! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Phil Rhodes Posted May 8, 2009 Premium Member Share Posted May 8, 2009 In the UK you probably won't get paid work with or without a reel, so it's rather a moot point. P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serge Teulon Posted May 8, 2009 Share Posted May 8, 2009 (edited) In the UK you probably won't get paid work with or without a reel, so it's rather a moot point. I completely disagree. Reel = exposure = work worked for me..... P.S Nepotism gets you there quicker Edited May 8, 2009 by Serge Teulon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Phil Rhodes Posted May 8, 2009 Premium Member Share Posted May 8, 2009 No, reel = DVD sitting on the shelf unless you already have potential exposure lined up. No-pay shorts do not equal exposure as they're unlikely ever to be shown anywhere. P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Rakoczy Posted May 8, 2009 Share Posted May 8, 2009 No, reel = DVD sitting on the shelf unless you already have potential exposure lined up. No-pay shorts do not equal exposure as they're unlikely ever to be shown anywhere. P huh?... there is a heck of a lot more to shoot than just Features.... that is a narrow view of the potentials for cinematography.... all sorts of things are shot everyday. Reel + Exposure = Work ...wait.. Phil, I think I misunderstood. You meant a DP DVD Reel sitting around(?)... I see... yes.. exposure is a must. If you are a DP you are in Sales & Marketing! Heck, if you are in business at all you are in Marketing... Either way, I don't get that' illegal to offer work for free' part.. is it illegal to accept an offer for free?.. no doubt Mr. Dzyak will explain all this :rolleyes: : ... is it because they can not Tax those types of business arrangements??? :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serge Teulon Posted May 8, 2009 Share Posted May 8, 2009 (edited) In my basic formula what I meant was that having a reel allows me to create my own exposure, which will (hopefully) bring me work. Without a reel I'm just another guy who says that he can do it! There can be a lot of attempts at exploitation in our work. But something tells me that Ashley is not trying to do that.... it really is down to the individual's circumstances, and views, to consider an offer like Ashley's as either an exploitation or an opportunity..... Edited May 8, 2009 by Serge Teulon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Rakoczy Posted May 8, 2009 Share Posted May 8, 2009 Absolutely! ... and quality marketing certainly helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serge Teulon Posted May 8, 2009 Share Posted May 8, 2009 Absolutely! ... and quality marketing certainly helps. indeed it does! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Phil Rhodes Posted May 8, 2009 Premium Member Share Posted May 8, 2009 ... is it because they can not Tax those types of business arrangements?? No, it's because there's a national minimum wage, with the idea of stopping people being exploited. The film and TV industry is notorious for breaking these rules, perhaps because it so regularly exploits people. P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Rakoczy Posted May 8, 2009 Share Posted May 8, 2009 Exploited..? If someone wants to work for free, that is up to them. That is not exploitation.. btw.. that is how I learned... almost every single job, or move up the ladder I did, I did for free (of my own volition) first, before someone would actually pay me to do the same job as I had to demonstrate some credibility and experience in the area I was applying. I remember a phrase called 'paying your dues'... I guess now the saying is.. 'I am due now, I am due'. Interesting one of the fastest growing economies has no minimum wage.. Hong Kong. It seems to me that if someone offered my son a job at $2/ hr and he was willing to take it and I approved because he was under the age of 18, who else's business is it? Does the Government know more than us? Look, if my son saw the value of taking a $2/hr job as he would learn a tremendous amount and he wanted to do it.. so be it.. I certainly have worked for less than $2/ hr.. I have shot entire four week Features for free... well not for free.. for Experience and Footage for my reel.. the same Footage that is still paying off now!... I am thankful for all the free gigs offered to me!.. and thankful they weren't arrested for the offer :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Phil Rhodes Posted May 9, 2009 Premium Member Share Posted May 9, 2009 Here's the particular problem we have in the UK, quite apart from the fact that it's illegal. If you work a job like this in the US, you'll turn up and shoot film and get it transferred nicely by professionals and graded and edited, and end up with something quite nice. Over here it'll be some guy with a DVX-100 in his back yard, with no insurance, no food, and sleeping on someone's couch. There is nothing wrong with any of this if that's what floats your boat (though I suspect it doesn't) but it does not produce reel material, it does not produce contacts, it does not get you exposure. It's someone's vanity project for his own amusement and nobody else's. This is the main reason behind my objection here, not the law. I've spent enough time in the US now to know that you would, if you turned up on this project, likely be utterly disgusted at what a waste of time it turned out to be. The standard there is galactically higher. The likelihood of this being in any way worthwhile is so remote as to be effectively zero. If this stuff was worth working on they'd have found some money. But that's quite apart from the fact that it is, yes, illegal - and damn right too. Hong Kong? Thankyou for making my point - go and look at the human rights record of the Chinese government! Nobody has a problem with the idea that you start at the bottom and work up, learning as you go. That's paying dues. Advancing a career in any industry requires learning, which is useful. Fine. What isn't useful is figuring out how to live on fresh air and dreams while you learn. Try telling military cadets they have to train for free. Try telling the office junior in some tedious corporate tower that he has to work unpaid. Try telling junior doctors they have to work for free, and most people in film and TV train for as long or longer than wannabe medicos do before they make any real money. Few other industries put up with this. We shouldn't either. P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 9, 2009 Share Posted May 9, 2009 it'll be some guy with a DVX-100 in his back yard, with no insurance, no food, and sleeping on someone's couch. So you where on the set of my last movie then? :D R, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serge Teulon Posted May 9, 2009 Share Posted May 9, 2009 Phil, You certainly have a point, which I totally back you on the fact that it needs sorting out. I believe that the problems which you highlighted are due to us in the UK not having a union that has some real power and weight. We are at the mercy.... Personally, had it not been for free jobs I would've found it even harder to make the giant leap between being hired as an assistant to being hired as a dp. Nobody and I repeat, nobody is going to give you a job as a dp because you earned your stripes assisting for upteen years or because you say that you can do it. When you manage to get meetings with producers, directors etc...you need to have something to show and initially, free work gives you that! Yes, it can be exploitive but that is down to each individual to assess what is being put in front of them and make a choice. If its a wrong one, you learn from it....if it's a good one, you count your lucky beans! Ok, in the US they might take a more wholesome approach at floor level, and believe you me I've worked with some right cases here in the UK, but I think that applies all the way to the top of the food chain. Does it not?!? We haven't got anything that comes close to HBO's production values in this country.....oh wait....Doctor Who?!? In my experience of life, you reap what you sow. Nothing is guaranteed but if you do some work, you put in the valuable hours of experience working on set and then canvas yourself adequately out there, you'll get something worthwhile back....it might take weeks, months or years but it will happen! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Rakoczy Posted May 9, 2009 Share Posted May 9, 2009 In my experience of life, you reap what you sow. Nothing is guaranteed but if you do some work, you put in the valuable hours of experience working on set and then canvas yourself adequately out there, you'll get something worthwhile back....it might take weeks, months or years but it will happen! Absolutely! It was those Freebies I shot including a four week Feature that got me another four week Feature that paid $4k that got me the next that paid $40k.... I would not have gotten one without the other. If it were easy, everbody would be doing it.. oh wait.. they ARE!!! :o :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Phil Rhodes Posted May 9, 2009 Premium Member Share Posted May 9, 2009 Nobody, absolutely nobody and I do mean nobody in the UK gets paid the equivalent for $40k to shoot a feature. You're either a huge guy who makes 40K a week, or you're lucky to get your £40 expenses. This is the big problem here - there is tiny worthless stuff (as our original correspondent) and there is Harry Potter and Bond, and there is nothing inbetween. P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Greene Posted May 9, 2009 Share Posted May 9, 2009 Here's the particular problem we have in the UK, quite apart from the fact that it's illegal. If you work a job like this in the US, you'll turn up and shoot film and get it transferred nicely by professionals and graded and edited, and end up with something quite nice. Over here it'll be some guy with a DVX-100 in his back yard, with no insurance, no food, and sleeping on someone's couch. There is nothing wrong with any of this if that's what floats your boat (though I suspect it doesn't) but it does not produce reel material, it does not produce contacts, it does not get you exposure. It's someone's vanity project for his own amusement and nobody else's. This is the main reason behind my objection here, not the law. I've spent enough time in the US now to know that you would, if you turned up on this project, likely be utterly disgusted at what a waste of time it turned out to be. The standard there is galactically higher. The likelihood of this being in any way worthwhile is so remote as to be effectively zero. If this stuff was worth working on they'd have found some money. P Phil, it's exactly the same in the US. The work is not technically legal, many, many dvx-100's have been used. Most of the time these projects are vanity projects and often are never seen. You know the worst part? The person whom you've worked for free, when they get some real money, often want...Someone who wouldn't work for free - They must be better :blink: But still Phil, I don't agree. If someone want to work for free, they should go for it, learn something and meet people. Take a chance if they want. In fact, Ashley, I'll come work for free. You did offer to pay for travel and lodging in your post :rolleyes: I hope the plane fare from Los Angeles, doesn't break the budget. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serge Teulon Posted May 9, 2009 Share Posted May 9, 2009 (edited) You know the worst part? The person whom you've worked for free, when they get some real money, often want...Someone who wouldn't work for free - They must be better :blink: This is something that bugged the hell out of me when I was starting out. I just didn't get it for ages....sometimes you find an individual who you share the growing journey with but that, imho, is very rare and should be treasured. Most of the time stepping stones is just part of the system that we work in. It's not nice but its reality. David - I must say that I haven't reached anything close to 40K for 4 weeks work........here's hoping! Edited May 9, 2009 by Serge Teulon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Rakoczy Posted May 9, 2009 Share Posted May 9, 2009 Bruce is right.. the divide between low budget and super high budget is ever advancing... I was lucky to ride that last wave of indy features that were between 2 - 3 million each... as they faded away I knew I had to do something so I started my move to commercials. When my contacts there dried up (the Japanese spots I shot paid very nicely - $3.5k a day)... I had about six months with NOTHING... and nothing on the horizon :o ... I then packed up my family and left Hollywood. It seems the only person who will hire me now is myself so I produce my own Spots. There is more than one way to skin a cat ;) Ashley.. I'd take him up on his offer! Nobody, absolutely nobody and I do mean nobody in the UK gets paid the equivalent for $40k to shoot a feature. -P That is sad. This is indeed a volatile business we are in.. one day you are the flavor of the month... the next.. who are you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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