Keying from the top straight down

[Ben Schwartz]

When lighting both interiors and exteriors, I often find myself keying from the top, straight down Gordon Willis style. This isn't a deliberate choice on my part, but comes from what I perceive to be logically motivated source placement. I love the dramatic, sculpted look of top lighting - Chris Doyle uses it to beautiful effect in a lot of his work with Wong Kar-Wai - but I'm wondering if I do it too much. It seems to me that it should be the most common placement of the key, given how much light, both natural and artificial, comes from above in our world.

 

I was curious how often other people on this forum key from the top straight down, what your thoughts are on the use of top key, etc.

[Phil Rhodes]

Hi,

 

Depends how soft it is. If you hard key from anywhere near directly overhead, that always starts looking to me like an interrogation scene or something else where the subject has the cares of the world on his shoulders. The softer it is, the less you get huge dark eye sockets, and it can start looking more like a drab office scene. In that circumstance it is as you say a logically motivated place for a key, but still looks more stylish than what you get in an actual office, which is so filled up from fluorescent ceiling panels several rows away that you lose the overhead effect.

 

I always think it's going to be a slightly edgy, pressurised look, though.

 

Phil

[David Mullen ASC]

I don't use overhead soft boxes as much as I'd like mainly because I always have some actress in the scene who looks dreadful lit that way. So if I use them to light a set, I'll stage the actress so her close-up doesn't end up directly under it. But otherwise, I like that Willis-lit look.

[DavidSloan]

I think that Birth used top lighting, brilliantly...and Gordon Willis, is Gordon Willis.

 

One thing to keep in mind with top lighting, as phil has rightly pointed out, is that it has a definite dramatic effect which is wrong for most stories. I don't really see black eye sockets being suitable for most scripts...do you light women this way, as well? I'm much more of a soft frontal key, a la obie light, with a juicy, hard kicker coming from like a 5 o'clock position...also a properly used book light will always make actors look good. I'm just not crazy about making my actors look like they haven't slept in a week.

Edited December 17, 2004 by DavidSloan

[Ben Schwartz]

I agree that Savides' work in Birth was stunning. Very warm, very ethereal, nicely underexposed (if only the script was as good!). And Nicole Kidman looked beautiful! Yes, I have lit women with direct top key, but of course I fill in the eyes. I'm not sure I completely agree with the previous posts...I think soft top key with eye fill is anything but unflattering, drab and oppressive. I find it very sensual, almost divine. Check out "Days of Being Wild" -- Chris Doyle uses it repeatedly, and his actresses never look less than stunning. David (Sloan), the method you describe for lighting women is certainly tried and true, but that's a more classical portrait-style of lighting actresses. I was thinking more about using top lighting as a naturally motivated source, kind of that old David Watkin "light the space, not the actor" thing. I was wondering if top lighting was the most logical choice in this approach.

[Guest fstop]

Bouncing off the ceiling is considerably softer and wider than a focused, hard source Gordon Willis kind of job. I've keyed bouncing off a white relfective covered ceiling with 2Ks and unfocused 1.2K HMIs before and got very soft, perfect results for what I have needed. Often you can fake the existence of overhead practicals you'd never see in the frame by doing this, and yes Watkin and others like Haskell Wexler did this to death in the late 60s.

[Phil Rhodes]

Hi,

 

Ah, the infamous ceiling bounce - sadly beloved of very quickly shot TV series all over the UK. I expect it's a handy way of achieving a quick fill for film work, where the film is going to see that blonde you fired into the roof as a low-level fill, but on video all it does is create that horrible flatness that you are generally trying to avoid. To this end, I just built four 4x36W fluorescent panel lights - and some very deep skirts that velcro on around the edge.

 

Phil

[Adam Frisch FSF]

The front/toplight is a nice version - all the character of the toplight but with the beauty of frontlight and filled eyesockets to boot. What's there not to like?

[Guest fstop]

Hi,

 

Ah, the infamous ceiling bounce - sadly beloved of very quickly shot TV series all over the UK. I expect it's a handy way of achieving a quick fill for film work, where the film is going to see that blonde you fired into the roof as a low-level fill, but on video all it does is create that horrible flatness that you are generally trying to avoid. To this end, I just built four 4x36W fluorescent panel lights - and some very deep skirts that velcro on around the edge.

 

Phil

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Holy generalisation, Batman!

 

I disagree for the reasons Adam states- it has it's place and can be used for video as effectively as it is as quick fill work for film. As I said before too, if you are in a room without practical illumination coming from the ceiling (like strips of flo lamps) and say the script calls for it to look and feel like an NHS building or an office and you don't need to see the ceiling, you can put reflective white stuff alll over the ceiling and bounce up- the simulation is perfect, cheap and quick. Works a dream for steadicam too, because there's no shadow ANYwhere. Not for every job, but a VERY VERY worthy tool.

[Greg Gross]

Stephen Goldblatt ASC had a problem witha scene in "Closer". The scene

was tough to light due to mirrors and curved glass. He said in American Cin-

ematographer magazine that it had all of the location nightmares. He wanted

to see if he could get enough exposure with just two or three 5K HMIs. He came

up with the idea of switching in some industrial HMIs from above. From there he

was able to get a silhouette with very soft fill.

 

 

Greg