day and night in same shot

[James Cotter]

I'm shooting a film in a couple of months, probably on DVCam. In the script someone gets the power to turn off the sun at will. So, in the middle of shots, the sun needs to go on/off. The scenes are all exterior, mainly looking down on people when suddenly it changes from day to night or vice versa. I'm wondering if anyone has any suggestions for the best way to achieve this either on set, or in post - but our fx budget is slim. I know just turning on/off tungstens is too slow to be realistic so I'd appreciate any advice.

[Guest fstop]

Get yourself a cinematogrtapher first.

 

There are a million different ways to do this with everythign from a big HMI to negative fill. Like I say, get your DP first and then experiment with them.

[David Mullen ASC]

Sort of depends on what the light source is when the sun switches off -- moonlight? Practicals like streetlamps? You may have to hide a cut between a day shot and a lit night exterior, or you may need to cut very tight on someone's face at night and light it to match a wider shot done in the daytime, then crossfade from day to night lighting. However, if this scene happens in the wilderness or desert, you may get away with day-for-night for the night, which will feel more like an eclipse.

[Phil Rhodes]

Hi,

 

Eesh, I don't know if I'd dare do day-for-night on this - where it's so central to the storyline... you absolutely can't afford to have it look cheesy, and even the very best DFN can look a bit off. I think half the point of this would be to go for an entirely accurate night look.

 

You also need to consider what would happen if the sun suddenly did go out - lots of car horns going and people frantically switching headlights on, streetlamps starting to fire up, etc.

 

Phil

[David Mullen ASC]

If the scene took place out in the open wilderness, he probably couldn't afford to light it for moonlight, hence why I suggested day-for-night. It would look odd, more like an eerie eclipse, than black night, but that may be OK.

 

But if this takes place in the city, then day-for-night wouldn't really work anyway because practical lamps would be more powerful if the sun went away. Of course, like you said, those lights wouldn't be on in the daytime so it would go pitch black probably, with maybe a hint of moonlight, until someone turned on some lights and the streetlamps automatically came on. So you could have lights gradually flickering on in the shot after plunging to black, which means you probably could hide a cut or use a short dissolve.

[Guest Alex Taylor]

I'm no expert, but what comes to mind immediately to me is a cut like David suggested. Either cut to a different angle, which would be easy but might get repetitive if you plan to do this a lot, or a jump cut to the exact same frame at night. If you've got access to After Effects, you could even shoot two plates, one day and the other night, then two shots with your character in it, day and night. From there it would be very simple to move the character slightly in the frame if he's off a bit when you cut. I hope that makes sense!

[Phil Rhodes]

Hi,

 

What I'd do is to shoot the character bluescreen, and then shoot the day/night plates with a locked-off camera and just wait for dusk. I think that's the only way you're going to be able to do it completely convincingly.

 

Phil

[John Sprung]

Is this scary sci-fi? comedy? My first thought would be to cut to a very fast time lapse sunset, then back to the exact same setup, but lit for night. That might work for comedy. If it needs to happen instantly, cut to a shot of the sun in the sky, and then to black film, and back to your same setup lit for night.

 

To have it happen instantly in the same shot, have your night version lighting on along with the day version, and have grips standing by to flag off the day setup on cue. Block the scene so there's as close to no movement anywhere at that instant as you can get. Then in post, lift a few frames right at that point. Sure, it's a jump cut, but the huge change in lighting should hide the tiny jumps in the positions of the actors.

 

 

 

-- J.S.

[James Cotter]

Thanks for the advice guys - unexpectedly out of the country so apologies for reply delay. There are two main scenes - one is a guy in a field in the middle of nowhere and the other is a crowded street in a city. I'll probably end up using a bit of all suggestions, shooting some stuff at day, some at night and using some day for night where I can get away with it. Has anybody come across anything in post that's made day for night more 'real' - my concern lies, as usual, with the sky in dfn shots. Can always nd it, etc, but I never quite buy it.

[Dominic Case]

my concern lies, as usual, with the sky in dfn shots.

The scenes are all exterior, mainly looking down on people

Problem solved. No need to include the sky - which is usually the best way to treat the sky in dfn shots.

 

The usual problem with dfn is that you need street lights, lights in buildings etc to give a real simulation of night (at least for the city shot you mention). That's something that is best to fix in post.

 

But in this instance, your first few moments of "night" will be, presumably, without any lights, as the night is unexpected. You would get away with a simple, under-exposed version of the day shot at first. Maybe lock off the camera, run the shot as for day, and drop in an ND and a polariser (which will darken the sky more than the ground and cut any reflections from the (now non-existent) sun, and continue the shot. If you are quick with the filters you keep the camera running and only cut a few frames so character movement will be negligible.

 

Subsequent shots you can wait till dusk to get the sky darker and allow city lights to come on. Street lights would flick on automatically in a second or two.

 

Logically, if the sun goes "off" there would be no moonlight, but plenty of starlight in an otherwise black sky - though you wouldn't expect to see the stars instantly.

 

It's a nice idea.