daniel brown Posted January 7, 2005 Share Posted January 7, 2005 Hi all, Well, our film requires a big chunk to be shot at night, out in the countryside. Now im no whizz with lights, so what sort of setup am i going to need? just one big light to bring the brightness up?? Thanks for any help. Also does anyone know of any good stores in the UK that sell lights, all the places ive found on the internet are american. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Hayes Posted January 7, 2005 Share Posted January 7, 2005 It?s hard to answer your question without knowing your budget. Big night country side lighting can get quite large and expensive. Often requiring large cranes and big expensive lights with long cable runs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daniel brown Posted January 7, 2005 Author Share Posted January 7, 2005 (edited) It?s hard to answer your question without knowing your budget. Big night country side lighting can get quite large and expensive. Often requiring large cranes and big expensive lights with long cable runs. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Well the cheaper the better really, unless i can find some source of funding, ill be looking at 1000 pounds probably max. I don't know if this would work but could we possibly use one or two big diffused lights? Edited January 7, 2005 by daniel brown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riku Naskali Posted January 8, 2005 Share Posted January 8, 2005 I'm sure someone will jump on this, but all the other sides aside, I'd strongly consider renting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daniel brown Posted January 9, 2005 Author Share Posted January 9, 2005 I'm sure someone will jump on this, but all the other sides aside, I'd strongly consider renting. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Well today i managed to get in contact with a good friend who can sort me out some lights very cheap, im not sure what he has but its a studio so imagine they have alot. So what sort of lights will i need? anything i should look out for? cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Phil Rhodes Posted January 9, 2005 Premium Member Share Posted January 9, 2005 Hi, You're asking a hopelessly vague question. Tell us more about the scene; what happens in it dramatically. Tell us what you want it to look like and what kind of shots you need to get; tell us what camera system you're using (16/35/hi def/video is all we really need to know, which stock if film). You can even refer to existing films if you've got somethnig in mind. Just asking "I have a night scene, what equipment do I need" is rather like asking "I'm hungry, what should I eat?" Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fstop Posted January 9, 2005 Share Posted January 9, 2005 Oop, also has "Director of Photography" in his profile as he asks the hopelessly vague question- he'll be done for by the LaurentA police next you look! ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Rosenbloom Posted January 9, 2005 Share Posted January 9, 2005 Well, lets not worry about "look" or "style," and just talk about what one needs for some basic exposure on a night exterior in the country. I think a super-dino on a 120 foot articulating lift will give you a lot of light over a large area. It's not as high or big as a set of Musco lights, but - as you say - you're on a budget. Just put the super-dino up as a 3/4 backlight, and then for fill behind the camera, you can bounce a couple of maxi-brutes into a 12'x12' muslin or ultra-bounce. Simple, two point lighting. (Just make sure the generators are far enough away they don't bother the sound mixer.) :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Phil Rhodes Posted January 9, 2005 Premium Member Share Posted January 9, 2005 I don't somehow think so! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allen Achterberg Posted January 9, 2005 Share Posted January 9, 2005 Oop, also has "Director of Photography" in his profile as he asks the hopelessly vague question- he'll be done for by the LaurentA police next you look! ;) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> LaurentA is coming? oh my god oh my god, I gotta get outta here. where should I go, oh my god HES COMING! okay im done. :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Kevin Zanit Posted January 9, 2005 Premium Member Share Posted January 9, 2005 LaurentA is coming? oh my god oh my god, I gotta get outta here. where should I go, oh my god HES COMING! okay im done. :lol: <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Wow, I will remember all this the next time I think about voicing an opinion . . . As was said above, your question is a bit vague. You will obviously not be able to light the entire country side even with a budget, thus you have two options: One, live with it, just let it taper off into darkness Two, shoot at a sunrise/ sunset. If I was to do this, I would shoot my close coverage at night, and then when it is dusk(y) looking I would shoot the wider stuff. In a scene like this you have to consider what the light source is. If it is along the road, you could motivate light from the streetlights (if there are any). Use a PAR to enhance the effect of the streetlight coming strait down (the size of the PAR would be determined by your budget). If there are no logical light sources, then moonlight is the convention. Generally one would have the "moonlight" be a little blue. You would need a fairly large unit fairly high and far away to sell this effect. As was said before, this works well in a 3/4 backlight position. You can then "cheat" in some side(y) light to bring some exposure on the face/ foreground. A fairly standard way to do this is a 12k HMI on a candlestick chain-viced to an 80' condor. If I need more spread I generally use a 20k or 36 light maxi-brute. Obviously the above method is not usually within the very low budget world's reach (you are looking at somewhere around $1000 USD a day more for this setup; assuming a 12k or 20k or 36 light Dino are not part of your package. This plus the condor rental, plus the condor delivery/ pickup, and the additional person who gets "condor duty" and extra cable lead to that large price). A cheaper solution is to take your "big gun" (whatever that may be in your case) and put it up on a mombocombo that is on parallels. This can get a bit sketchy but would get the job done, order extra sandbags! Kevin Zanit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Phil Rhodes Posted January 9, 2005 Premium Member Share Posted January 9, 2005 Hi, > candlestick What? > chain-viced Sorry? > mombocombo Huh? Phil "Not Quite Ready for Gafferdom" Rhodes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Rosenbloom Posted January 9, 2005 Share Posted January 9, 2005 Candlestick: 1 1/4" steel pipe, about 40" long w/ a 2K receiver in one end. Chain vise grip: One of those locking pliers that has about 20" of bicycle chain attached to it. It's basically a c-clamp for round stuff. Mambo Combo: A big ass, freakin' heavy stand, that has a 4 1/2" grip head and a 2k receiver at the top. They extend to about 22' high, and you can mount a 5k, or a 4k par on it. Anything bigger and things get kind of wobbly. Take a look at the Mathew's (or Arri, or Avenger, or Norms) catalog and this stuff will make a lot more sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Phil Rhodes Posted January 9, 2005 Premium Member Share Posted January 9, 2005 Hi, > Candlestick: 1 1/4" steel pipe, about 40" long w/ a 2K receiver in one end. Oh, you mean an extension pole. > Chain vise grip: One of those locking pliers that has about 20" of bicycle chain > attached to it. That sounds hideously dangerous. > Mambo Combo: A big ass, freakin' heavy stand, that has a 4 1/2" grip head and a 2k > receiver at the top. What, like a windup? Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riku Naskali Posted January 9, 2005 Share Posted January 9, 2005 >What, like a windup? Mombo combo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Phil Rhodes Posted January 9, 2005 Premium Member Share Posted January 9, 2005 Hi, Okay, it's a windup without the winding-up, windups are better. Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Kevin Zanit Posted January 9, 2005 Premium Member Share Posted January 9, 2005 The Chain vices are actually quite stable. When you are using a candlestick you would use about 3 to make it proper. A mombocombo actually reaches higher than a crank up (or windup). It is just like a regular light stand except it reaches a lot higher, and has a gobo head at the top. Here are two pics: http://kevinzanit.com/media/mombo1.jpg http://kevinzanit.com/media/mombo2.jpg Kevin Zanit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daniel brown Posted January 10, 2005 Author Share Posted January 10, 2005 Hey Yer i've changed my profile for you all now! I didnt really bother with it to begin with. Yer i was looking for more of a lighting rig to use rather than how to create mood, style etc Thanks kevin and J-Ro, i've got a better idea of how to go about this now! Few Questions: Whats this PAR? and also 3/4 backlight position? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Rosenbloom Posted January 10, 2005 Share Posted January 10, 2005 Hey Daniel, You do realize I didn't really expect you to mount an ultra-dino on a 120' condor? My point, which Kevin also made, is that doing a Night Exterior can be a really big job. On TV shows or movies on which I've been a grip, this kind of shooting can easily soak up 10 electricians and 10 grips, plus another 8 guys on a rigging crew. But you're a student. You're going to be working small. I hesitate to suggest getting a generator, because then you'll have to find someone to operate it and you'll have to make sure that it's a quiet one. The first thing you need is electricity. Assuming you're NOT getting a genny, then the most powerful light you can use is a 1.2K par HMI. Doesn't matter what par stands for. I hope to God that at this point of your education you know that HMI means it produces daylight. I know from experience that - as far as students go - these lights aren't cheap, but, if you can get 2 of these lights, then you can use one as the 3/4 backlight, and throw the other onto the background from the same spot. (3/4 backlight: Imagine a clockface: The camera is at 6 o'clock, the subject is in the center of the circle, the 3/4 backlight is halfway between one and two o'clock. 3/4 back is very basic; it "always" looks good. Don't ask me why.) Throw some 1/4 cto on the hmi's and live with the blue; student film, there'll be others. If you're friend has anything bigger than a 2k, don't bother taking it; you won't be able to plug it in. (Unless you're in England, in which case my numbers are all wrong.) Good luck! "Wind up?" you mean a crank stand. Yes these are much better, safer, for lights. Chain vices: 2 are usually enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Hayes Posted January 10, 2005 Share Posted January 10, 2005 Again; this is not a forum for the vague. $1,000 pounds max? For the whole film? the night shoot? the crane? I assume you mean you don?t have any money. My Answer? Take the largest light you can afford, put it on the highest stand you can afford, and side light the background. Take the second largest light you can afford, put it on the second highest stand you can afford, and ¾ backlight the scene. Take the third largest light you can afford and ¾ front light the scene. Pray. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Phil Rhodes Posted January 10, 2005 Premium Member Share Posted January 10, 2005 Hi, Going by the use of slang I'm guessing he's in the UK, so he can run a 2.5K HMI off a mains socket, assuming he can afford to rent one. That's not a completely insignificant light. Also, Daniel, I hate to be the arsehole but learn now and look less of an idiot later: > Yer ...isn't a word > i ...isn't the personal pronoun unless it's capitalised. Sorry, but you're among professionals; try not to sound like a 16-year-old from the rough part of town, even if you are one. Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daniel brown Posted January 10, 2005 Author Share Posted January 10, 2005 Yes, I'm 17 and yes im not from the best part of the town, but unlike alot of the other idiots running around vandalising cars, getting drunk most nights, and just causing hassle for everyone, i'm actually trying to do something constructive with my time. Sorry if im not professional enough for you, but i've been researching as much as I can into lighting, as I don't have the funds to goto film school, i'm going to have to make the most of the free education I can get from the internet, forums like this, and some friends in the industry for now. "Again; this is not a forum for the vague. $1,000 pounds max? For the whole film? the night shoot? the crane? I assume you mean you don?t have any money." Well, I don't have an abundance of money, altogether I have at the moment 3000 pounds ($5,600 at the moment) which I could spend, mostly saved up from working last summer, but I don't plan on shooting anything until August time so by then I should have alot more stashed away, and also alot more knowledge. This isn't going to be a feature length film. I don't really want to blow all my money unless I really have too. Throw some 1/4 cto? What are these? Thanks All Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riku Naskali Posted January 10, 2005 Share Posted January 10, 2005 (edited) Sorry if im not professional enough for you, but i've been researching as much as I can into lighting, as I don't have the funds to goto film school, i'm going to have to make the most of the free education I can get from the internet, forums like this, and some friends in the industry for now. It's not that, but I think most people here are getting tired of answering the same questions over and over again, but then again the FAQ's not ready yet. I'd suggest digging up some basic knowledge about lighting from the net, for example the cml-list's website has archived threads. They have a lot of info on night lighting. CML-list >Throw some 1/4 cto? What are these? It's a warming gel that lowers color temperature. For example Roscosun full CTO converts 5500K to 2900K. Edited January 10, 2005 by Riku Naskali Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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