For 10 pts. Solve this Trick Shot

[Lindsay Mann]

I will soon be shooting the following, if I can figure it out: Track back from my subject in location A, at the end of the track, freeze frame and seamlessly transition to location B, my subject's image is still in freeze frame, but as a slide projected on the wall. continue the track back into location B. any suggestions?

 

And, for bonus points, name a movie in which this takes place. I had originally thought Barton Fink, but that does not count. Although it's basically the same idea. Defending Your Life with Al Brooks uses something very similar in the final judgement scene. Great movie by the way. Even greater name: Rip Torn.

 

So long and good luck. Your grades will be determined on succinctness and originality. You may begin...

[Guest fstop]

Can't you just blow up a frame from the location A footage then rephotograph it on two and a quarter chromes?

 

I must admit, I totally misinterpreted your post, but wrote something neat about Darkman that I spent so long recollecting that someone must have some use for it ;) :

 

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There's that terrible shot (one of many) in Darkman after Peyton's lab gets blown to pieces at night by the mobsters and Francis McDormand is in a medium wideshot, looking up at the burning building- suddenly the background dissolves optically into that of a cemetery and the lights go up on her to suggest daylight, costume crudely dissolves onto her too. McDormand was very blatantly filmed in front fo a bluescreen and both backgrounds were plates dissolved together by VCE.

 

Personally, one REALLY cool way to do this would be to do this whole sequence with front projection (which offers pan and tilt for such composite work) for the location background, so he tracks away from point A then ends at point B, but here's where you could literally freezeframe the front projection plate

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[Guest Alex Taylor]

The Matrix (the first one) uses something like this when they pull out from Mr. Anderson's interrogation to reveal it's on a security camera, and we're watching it through a monitor.

 

Here's how I would do it: You could film location A normally, being careful to time your dolly so the speed of the other one can match up. On the wall of location B where the photo would appear, stick a black piece of paper or something the same size as the photo that also contrasts with the wall. Start your dolly with the black piece of paper filling the frame and track back at the same speed as your dolly in location A.

 

In post, freeze the last frame of location A you want, and composite it over the black piece of paper in location B. Since you have the black paper for reference, you can keyframe the size of the photo as the dolly moves back, so it appears as if it's on the wall. Your cut point would be wherever the sizes of the frame & photo match.

 

That should work well, assuming it's a fairly simple dolly backwards.

Edited January 19, 2005 by Alex Taylor

[Lindsay Mann]

In post, freeze the last frame of location A you want, and composite it over the black piece of paper in location B. Since you have the black paper for reference, you can keyframe the size of the photo as the dolly moves back, so it appears as if it's on the wall. Your cut point would be wherever the sizes of the frame & photo match.

 

Whoa. You just blew my mind. I had never thought about that, I don't know why. The one problem I forsee is matching it to the other stills coming from the slide projector. I want it to see natural, and I want to actually film the slides projected on the wall (including the sharp beam of light from the lamp cutting through some fog). I suppose those could be different shots though and match rather well. Thanks. Very astute. While we're on it though, has anyone suggestions for creating that sharp beam through the fog? I have a feeling the light will all diffuse rather severely. We're talking minimal fog here, it's a living room interior. But I want to portray the dreamlike nature of light projected through photographs.

 

Brilliant suggestion, though, I'm definitely trying it with my video camera. I wish I thought of that.

[Jason Mann]

A low level of fog should give you some definition on the beam of light, but keep it really low. I've only used fog a few times, and each time it's gotten too heavy and then contrast has gone to hell.

 

And that meant airing out an already frickin freezing stage in the middle of January.

 

Not good times.

 

 

Whoa. You just blew my mind. I had never thought about that, I don't know why. The one problem I forsee is matching it to the other stills coming from the slide projector. I want it to see natural, and I want to actually film the slides projected on the wall (including the sharp beam of light from the lamp cutting through some fog). I suppose those could be different shots though and match rather well. Thanks. Very astute. While we're on it though, has anyone suggestions for creating that sharp beam through the fog? I have a feeling the light will all diffuse rather severely. We're talking minimal fog here, it's a living room interior. But I want to portray the dreamlike nature of light projected through photographs.

 

Brilliant suggestion, though, I'm definitely trying it with my video camera. I wish I thought of that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[David Mullen ASC]

Nobody remembers "Citizen Kane"? The shot that pushes into the still photo in the window of the board members of the newspaper that then unfreezes as Kane steps into the shot? That's still the most perfect example of that trick.

 

Nowadays you'd comp the still photo of the freeze frame digitally into the scene and track it to the wall, like that commercial (for HP?) you see with the empty frames people are holding in front of themselves, capturing a still, and then handing it off.

[Bill Totolo]

I was thinking even less techy re: Citizen Kane with the foregroung/background lighting transitions in the open and during Joseph Cotton's interviews in the old age home.

 

Forgot about the photo.

[Phil Rhodes]

Hi,

 

This is not difficult to do; you don't even need the black paper - just whatever surface you're projecting the slides onto, possibly with four corner-pin marks. Use an additive (called "screen" or "addition") composite and dissolve the background up behind it (since the projected image will have poorer contrast than your live shot, and you want it to be realistic)

 

Problem - if you don't project anything while doing your dolly back, it will suddenly be very obvious that the light beam appears when you start projecting real slides. However, if you do project something while doing the dolly back, you'll have to comp over the light beam, which could be a cow to get right. You might still be OK just additively comping your image over the top, but that'll reduce contrast even more than just comping it over the wall.

 

Phil

[cineshooter]

I'm not certain I'm following perfectly.

How big is the projected picture cutting through the fog (any projector will cut the beam (that I think) you are talking about, if the picture needs to be projected very large (let's say life size) then a xeon beam projector would do the job. But if you are trying to turn a still (freeze frame) of one scene to a framed picture to start you next scenes transition then how about photographing the scene form the camera final position for a still (if you are not shooting 35mm) with a 35mm SLR or a medium format using a lens with the same angle of view developing the picture and hanging it on the wall, or taking a digital still with a pro type digital camera and printing it out to hang on the wall.....with all you actors in place you can use a kiss to white or black as the transition in case there are any minor variations and then start you next scenes dolly move from that photo .....sorry I'm just not sure I was following the question, but I would love to try and help

 

JD

www.cineshooter.com

[Jeff Brown]

There is no need to take a still image at the end of the first sequence. No matter the medium (dv, 8mm, 16mm, etc), use the last frame as the tracked element for the living room. If you were to use a different picture altogether from a different camera, it would have a distinct look+feel different than your original footage, and would stick out like a sore thumb. Just use the last frame and color correct to taste, that way the element wont change unnecessarily and 'break' the scene. as long as your markers are clean, its no chore to complete.

 

(video tutorial link) http://www.cmivfx.com/m/hp_style_cmivfx.mov

 

This is a link to a Digital Fusion tutorial depicting how the HP commercials were made, and demonstrates just how simple it actually is. DF is not necessary, as this trick can be done in any package (shake, combustion, et al).

 

The projection patterns in the fog dont have to necessarily be 'correct''. as long as there is very little fog in the room a little dry erase marker on the lens will produce a 'noise' to project through. it doesnt have to be believable, just constant.

 

my 2 cents :)

[Kyle Geerkens]

Dumb question....

 

if you key the frame in over a sheet of paper as mentioned earlier, then start your camera move, how does this work without the keyed image itself moving.

 

I have limited experience with chroma and i thought as a basic rule you cant do much with your camera position? Is this all attained with software?

[Jeff Brown]

Dumb question....

 

if you key the frame in over a sheet of paper as mentioned earlier, then start your camera move, how does this work without the keyed image itself moving.

 

I have limited experience with chroma and i thought as a basic rule you cant do much with your camera position?  Is this all attained with software?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

its not quite a keying manuever, more of a tracking shot. you 'anchor' your overlay image onto your footage, in the corners of your frame (or any small area with high contrast really). then you 'solve' the scene, where the tracking application grounds your overlay to those points, and will shear/distort the image in order to maintain perspective.

 

not a dumb question at all. :)

Edited January 24, 2005 by Jeff Brown