Guest Frank Gossimier Posted February 5, 2005 Share Posted February 5, 2005 I don't think it's turning "nasty" at all, it's a perfectly fine "spirited" discussion amongst adults. If any thing my last post dials it down a few notches as I have now provided the off site resources as proof of what I am saying , as requested by Brad. Every thing I said regarding US and Hollywood control of the Canadian film industry has now been documented. There is nothing wrong with presenting factual information. Unless of course the audience does not want to hear the facts. Frank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidSloan Posted February 5, 2005 Share Posted February 5, 2005 Last time Canada was on the news, was because the former leader of the New Democratic Party accused a hand puppet of being a vile racist. :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Frank Gossimier Posted February 6, 2005 Share Posted February 6, 2005 What news? The American news? Nothing makes the American news unless it happens in the USA or the middle east. And what exactly does a hand puppet and the complete idiots in the NDP have to do with any thing? The NDP are so stupid they would accuse MLK of being a racist. Frank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidSloan Posted February 6, 2005 Share Posted February 6, 2005 It was just a joke connoting that nothing much happens in Canada. And I disagree with your evaluation of American news...we have local news on local channels and we also have different news shows that cover a range of topics. There are also tons of publications that cover international happenings. I personally subscribe to a variety of news/political magazines, some are non U.S based. I also come from a multilingual family and read news papers in Hebrew while my parents can read in English, French, Creole, Arabic, Spanish, Hebrew, Yiddish, and Polish. The point is if you want a variety of journalistic opinion, America is the place to get it. Trust me I'm a news junkie, I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Salzmann Posted February 6, 2005 Share Posted February 6, 2005 I think that one of the key issues is the consisent underestimation of the general public in both the US and the rest of the world. Screenwriters who have pitched in Hollywood have told me that high level film execs get real nervous if you don't compare the film you are pitching to at least three recent box office hits. They get super nervous at any reference to people like Tarkovski especially since the remake of "Solaris" was a flop. Start talking Bergman and Antonioni and they think you're off your rocker. What should we expect when films are not referred to as films but as "products"? I've also heard that for an unknown screenwriter over 30 it is virtually impossible to pitch because after 30 "your fingers are too off the pulse". I once saw a housecat that couldn't go out and was forced to be a vegetarian because its owners were. And you know what? That cat ate those veggies! All that being said, crap films keep people working and that's better than not working I guess. What can we expect when the placemats at McDonalds are advertising the movie? What can we expect when the video game potential of a film is often just as important as the film itself? And don't worry here in Europe there are alot of bad copies of bad American films. America is lucky not to have to deal with watching those. All we can do is crack on, keep our noses north and make the best with what we've got on every show! In a few years the war in Iraq will maybe spawn some great films like Vietnam did with "Full Metal Jacket", "Platoon", "Apocalypse Now", Deerhunter, etc. Isn't that comforting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Frank Gossimier Posted February 6, 2005 Share Posted February 6, 2005 "The point is if you want a variety of journalistic opinion, America is the place to get it" I assume Fox News Channel would be the exception to the rule? Frank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidSloan Posted February 6, 2005 Share Posted February 6, 2005 Fox news is just one news channel of the very many you get on cable. I also get BBC world news, MSNBC, CNN, a variety of news shows on PBS, Democracy Now, CSPAN shows, etc... I'm glad to get a wide and varied spectrum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Phil Rhodes Posted February 6, 2005 Premium Member Share Posted February 6, 2005 Hi, Well I guess it's impossible to pitch under 30 because you'd lack experience so you're screwed either way! Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Frank Gossimier Posted February 6, 2005 Share Posted February 6, 2005 I'm still waiting for Brad Grimmetts off site resources debunking my off site resources. Where is he? Working today? Frank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Y.M.Poursohi Posted February 8, 2005 Share Posted February 8, 2005 Vow this is one of the most heated threads. I'll be just commenting on "foreign nationals" working in the US: This is what I know from working on commercials only in NYC, I am a PA. In order to get paid on every job you need a social security number and two froms of ID to fill out the timecard (you also neeed those for the W-4 and I-9). From my understanding it is illegal for a company to pay you more than $700 a year without reporting it to the IRS. I have been trying to give avdice to a friend's significant other who just came from Mexico wanting to work here on big production jobs, and I think the only way to be safe and legitimate is to have the paper work( Green CARD and Social Security#). You have to remember that a producer might not want to go through all the trouble of giving an illegal alien work, such a person may not get called again if people realize there will be trouble down the road with the IRS and INS. I am an immigrant myself living in the States for ten years and hope that all the hard work that my father and mother put into bringing the family legaly was worth while. I have to say it is not a RIGHT to live in NYC (or anywhere else) and work in production it is a PRIVALAGE that shouln't be abused, people seem to forget that. I think that it is a valid when crew guys from LA and NYC complain about crew guys coming from Canada and just start getting gigs. What happend to paying your dues. As for American films dominating theatres in other countries, it is one principle that drives the economy for most of the world: demand and supply. There is a demand for American programs in other countries and if the country itself can't bring the supplies, others will ( You'd be surprised how young and old people in my native Iran consume American films despite the political BS, they eat and breath what ever western) Just getting a bit antsy when I read "Well just cross the border and get a gig" kind of mentality. There are plenty of qualified people in NYC or LA, where there is no shortage of supply of talent, as opposed to other countries where there is a shortage of supply in films, that's why they show the American products. just my own rant Yousef Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Phil Rhodes Posted February 8, 2005 Premium Member Share Posted February 8, 2005 Hi, The problem with that argument is that it's circular. The reason almost nobody makes films in the UK is that there's no market for them under American domination. It's quite possible to argue that the US motion picture industry, via its part-ownership of the US government through our pal Valenti, is engaging in violently anticompetitive business practices in this regard. Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Salzmann Posted February 8, 2005 Share Posted February 8, 2005 "The problem with that argument is that it's circular. The reason almost nobody makes films in the UK is that there's no market for them under American domination." I think there are other possible reasons Phil. I lived for 2 1/2 years in London and got a few onsite impressions and questions to add to those that I can make from France which is just across the pond, so to speak. I think that England is blocked into a certain mindset concerning British productions. While films that are "socially conscious" are important for whatever reason be it "political correctness" or the reassurance that comes from seeing people in even worse situations than oneself, IMO there should be more of a place for more "surrealist" work for example. London (the only place I really can begin to say I know) has many highly qualified people in all departments as well as technical facilities that can handle just about anything that can come up production wise. In a way France suffers from similar problems but they manifest themselves in different ways. British producers want to make money-fair enough. Why not analyze the types of films that British audiences want and are paying to see and with this as a barometer or indicator of public demand, hire some screenwriters (and they do exist) to explore these areas and MAKE SOME FILMS? Not every film requires 100's of millions of dollars à la Matrix. There are an infinite number of options other than "Bend it like Beckham" (twee and laddy) or "Snatch" (violent and laddy). If American "domination" is a problem than the UK should start producing more and start dominating. The US and the UK are both English speaking and British productions are easier to export. The UK's inventiveness in terms of commercials and pop promos can be channeled into fiction films. It is too easy to just sit back and winge about the Americans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Frank Gossimier Posted February 8, 2005 Share Posted February 8, 2005 Sorry, but as I have clearly documented, in Canada's case at least, the "free market" argument is a pile of you know what! Canada would make a lot more films if we could get the US gov't and Hollywood lobyists out of our distribution system. Why make a film if it will never see the light of day because Hollywood doesn't want the competition? In Hollywoods view Canada is simply considered to be part of the "domestic" box office. Even weekend movie totals from Canada are included in the US total! And I will say again, AMERICANS WOULD NEVER TOLERATE THIS IF IT WHERE REVERSED. So I propose all Canadians to stop "sneeking" down to LA to work, and Hollywood and the US gov't get their grubby little hands off the Canadian market place. Frank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Phil Rhodes Posted February 8, 2005 Premium Member Share Posted February 8, 2005 Hi, I agree completely with Mr. Salzmann. We have a problem admitting that we're commercial in this country; producers are embarrassed to admit they're making a popcorn movie. This needs to cease. We're quite knowingly choosing to fail. Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Frank Gossimier Posted February 8, 2005 Share Posted February 8, 2005 Well English guys at least the UK can point to past incredible success making commercially viable movies, like... Bridge On the River Kwai Lawrence Of Arabia Ghandi Chariots Of Fire The Full Monty To name just a few. Canada has yet to produce a commercially viable well known movie in our history. And by well known I don't mean film people that read forums like this, I mean well known by an average guy walking down the street in London or New York. That kind of well known. Of course so long as we need permission from Hollywood and the US gov't to load film into a mag, I doubt it will happen any time soon. Frank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidSloan Posted February 9, 2005 Share Posted February 9, 2005 @Frank: was Ballistic: Ecks vs. Sever a Canadian film or was it just shot in Vancouver? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Frank Gossimier Posted February 9, 2005 Share Posted February 9, 2005 Hmmmm, never heard of it, so I have no idea. Sorry. Frank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riku Naskali Posted March 6, 2005 Share Posted March 6, 2005 >Since people in foreign countries have no real film industries of their own to work in, what choice do they have but to sneak into the USA? This thread is really depressing. I just wondered about this... and came up with absolutely nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Spear Posted March 6, 2005 Share Posted March 6, 2005 ""So I propose all Canadians to stop "sneeking" down to LA to work, and Hollywood and the US gov't get their grubby little hands off the Canadian market place."" :angry: I would =pay= to be able to biyotch slap you, Frank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Frank Gossimier Posted March 6, 2005 Share Posted March 6, 2005 Whoa! We have a real big man here, he's gonna "biyotch slap" me. (what ever the heck that is?). Listen TSM, you little punk, you think you're man enough to do it I'd like to see you try! E-mail me your address and I'll stop in next time I'm in your city and you can make good on your promise. I'm serious!! Oh the big tough boy is gonna hurt me, I'm shaking in my boots. I hope you exceed 6ft and 200 pounds or this is going to be a short fight. You have a problem with my assessment of how Hollywood and US gov't control the Canadian film market? Let's see you disprove what I'm saying with facts rather than empty threats you can never make good on. Frank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Frank Gossimier Posted March 6, 2005 Share Posted March 6, 2005 Porky's Of course! Oh now I can feel proud! O'Canada, our home and native land........ Come on all you lovers of the mighty Canadian film industry, sing! Frank PS: Well we do have the highest per capita number of government funded movies about lesbians, aboriginals, and any thing that happened on the East coast in the 1800s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Daniel J. Ashley-Smith Posted March 6, 2005 Share Posted March 6, 2005 there is a reason for this and it's as Michael Caine said, we love to ruin anything successful in this country. And to be honest I couldn't agree more with him. We seem to sell anything great we have. (Not that this is film, but we sold the train service to the French! And I'll be blown if they know how to run it anyway) To be honest, it would be nice if we could afford to make our own films, but at the end of the day just because it's funded by America or whoever doesn't mean it's not a British film, British actors, British crew, it's made by the British so who cares. Although because we can't afford to make our own films, unfortunately talented British actors and crew are running off to America. For instance Ewan Mcgregor is now doing American films. I suppose it all comes down to how patriotic you are. I'd like to see more films funded in Britain, but I'm not going to throw my career in film away just because I can't do all my films in Britain. If I ever won the lottery (or become rich in anyway) I?d be interested in setting up my own film company. I would then fund British films, and hopefully get it off to another great start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Daniel J. Ashley-Smith Posted March 7, 2005 Share Posted March 7, 2005 We don't have an industry in this country because we don't have a government that understands what a film industry is. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Out of interest, what does the government have to do with it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fstop Posted March 7, 2005 Share Posted March 7, 2005 A HUGE amount- In a nutshell, back in the 1930s we had a tax law that forced foreign filmmakers using our facilities, locations and crews to put money into smaller UK films. These were called "Quota quickies" and were basically the backbone of our industry. We also let investors like Mr. Korda come to the country and develop/nurture our talent without getting too tax faffy- so we had companies like London films, British based, administrated and operating albeit owned by a Hungarian who wanted to make a British Hollywood- and we also had the cheaper quickly knocked off quota films which were made using tax money from foreign filmmakers. The Eady Levy then came into effect in 1948 which would give American production companies shooting in the UK tax breaks in exchange for half of the ticket prices going into British production companies. Thatcher abolished this in the mid 80s, which is why from 1985 onwards Pinewood, Shepperton and Elstree have been ghosttowns. Elstree (home of the oriignal Star Wars and Indiana Jones movies) actually, lost it's backlot for a housing estate and it was only thanks to George Lucas who came over from the States that the studio avioded turning into a supermarket in 1994. Tony Blair's government has made vein attempts to put tax breaks on in recent years and also with new obligations such as using UK visual effects facilities on 51% of a Harry Potter movie and such. And then there's the National Lottery, who seem to give funding to directors who have failed in the States (Danny Boyle, The Beach, Life Less Ordinary) who are actually wealthy enough to mortgage their mansions in order to fund their 28 days later- yet everyone below gets nothing... We like the idea of celebrating talent who have success across the pond in this country, even though we detered and never encouraged them we like the idea of taking full credit for their success and declaring the UK a breeding ground for the future of cinema. Is it any wonder Phil Rhodes is such a rightfully angry man? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Phil Rhodes Posted March 7, 2005 Premium Member Share Posted March 7, 2005 Just so you know, the local Odeon is currently showing: Boogeyman (American paid for and produced) Harold and Kumar get the munchies (Ditto - and for crying out loud!) Hide and seek (Same again) Hitch (And again.) Kinsey (You'll never guess!) Million Dollar Baby (Say, now there's a surprise!) The Magic Roundabout (Pathe! With American money!) The Spongebob... oh, I can't even be bothered to type it. American. Vera Drake (From that country just south of Canada) I think further comment is redundant, really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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