Premium Member Peter J DeCrescenzo Posted October 13, 2010 Author Premium Member Share Posted October 13, 2010 Just an FYI: Quite nice footage shot by Matt Meikle & Joe Lawry of Crews.TV using a late prototype version of Panasonic's m4/3 AF100 camcorder: http://vimeo.com/15765280 Watch Vimeo's (highly compressed) "HD" version, but turn off Vimeo's "scaling" feature for best results. EDIT: They've also posted some follow-up articles on their website as the footage worked it way through post: http://crews.tv/blog/2010/10/22/af100-images-pushed-to-the-limit/ In addition to the discussion on Vimeo, there's also a discussion of this footage on DVXuser: http://www.dvxuser.c...c-AF101-Footage Meanwhile, B&H is now taking paid-in-advance pre-orders for the AF100 @ $4,795: http://www.bhphotovi...our_Thirds.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Peter J DeCrescenzo Posted October 18, 2010 Author Premium Member Share Posted October 18, 2010 Zacuto cobbles together several rigs for use with the AF100 prototype (starring Jan C-L): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0oSfm7-Wvw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Peter J DeCrescenzo Posted October 19, 2010 Author Premium Member Share Posted October 19, 2010 Philip Bloom has a prototype AF100 for testing. Here's his first test video @ ISO 3200: http://vimeo.com/16000333 See the Vimeo page for a bit more info. ... there's more info on his blog: http://philipbloom.net/2010/10/19/af100/ See also: http://www.dvxuser.c...om-s-first-test Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dal Neitzel Posted November 2, 2010 Share Posted November 2, 2010 F&D has a nice review of the AF100 today at: http://www.fdtimes.com/news/?p=2780 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Smith Posted November 13, 2010 Share Posted November 13, 2010 more philip bloom... first footage ive seen that puts it to use in pretty standard natural light situations....looks ok...still some minor rolling shutter issues it looks like and definitely major clipping issues, digitally over sharpened edges seem present... Very videoy. its a $5000 camera....I dont think its giving you anymore than you really expected for 5k in 2010...Sony's camera is at like 13k I think so well see what that footage is like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Phil Rhodes Posted November 14, 2010 Premium Member Share Posted November 14, 2010 My suspicion that this is a perhaps very slightly improved version of a GH1 deepens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shidan Saberi Posted December 20, 2010 Share Posted December 20, 2010 I believe this camera and sony vg10 will give the SLR cameras with film feature a real good run for their money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Tyler Posted December 20, 2010 Share Posted December 20, 2010 I'd like to know why Panasonic chose not to include P2 support. DVCPRO-HD is an old codec, but Panasonic owns it and it would have been a nice option on this camera. AVC-Intra would have been fabulous. No timecode connections either? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Peter J DeCrescenzo Posted December 20, 2010 Author Premium Member Share Posted December 20, 2010 Hi Tim: I suspect the answer to all of your questions is, "To keep the price of the camera below $5K US." Panasonic would probably have to charge considerably more for a AF100-like camera if it included P2 & AVC-Intra, if the rest of their product line & pricing is any indication. I also wonder if, since the AF100 is a not-too-distant cousin of the GH1 & GH2, it might be problematic for Panasonic to sell the current AF100 for significantly more than $5K US. That's not to say Panasonic is prevented from coming out with a higher-end version of the AF100 which includes significantly increased performance & features. If such a camera produced hugely better-quality video than the GH2, and included P2 & AVC-Intra, it would be well worth an increase in price. Given the apparent pre-sales success of the AF100 (and forthcoming competitive products from Sony, RED & eventually Canon), I'd be surprised if Panasonic doesn't build on that success by offering a follow-on model. Just my $0.02 US. Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Tyler Posted December 20, 2010 Share Posted December 20, 2010 Adding P2 and DVCPRO-HD to the AF100 probably wouldn't have cost them more (they offer those in the less costly HVX's) but those features would drive up the costs for new users who don't own P2 cards and media management tools. I've always liked using Panasonic's cameras and I have purchased several over the years, but I get the feeling that they omit small features from their lowered priced offerings to encourage sales of their more expensive lines. Like you I suspect they'll offer a large sensor camera in a year with better codecs and more professional features, but only they know that for sure. Sony's forthcoming F3L seems like a good solution for those who want more pro features sooner than later, albeit at almost three times the price of the AF100. And the F3L's EX codec is just a shade better than AVCHD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member John Sprung Posted December 28, 2010 Premium Member Share Posted December 28, 2010 They showed it at EVS today, along with Ilya Friedman's PL mount adapter for it. It does 1080p/24 native, using MPEG-4, with a 12 frame GOP. We weren't able to do any flash tests, but on rapid movement, it didn't exhibit detectable rolling shutter artifacts. It does indeed have dual on-board SD cards, and offboard recording via HD-SDI. It has a nice pre-record buffer, which even works with the offboard or velcro-attached NanoFlash. It can go up to 60p for slow motion, and also does 25/50 for the PAL/SECAM markets. And, it has time code and two channels of sound. For dynamic range and color gamut, it ain't an Alexa, but for $5K, it does more than fine. It's only eight bits, though, so you don't want to stray too far from your intended ballpark. The one downside is substantial viewfinder and monitor delay. On fast motion such as stand-ups, it looks like the operator had a three martini lunch. Doug Leighton's checking into that to see if it might be a readily fixable menu and settings issue. Nobody was particularly familiar with the menus, so it took a substantial amount of futzing around. It doesn't Moire like the DSLR's do, so it should pretty much kill them off except for cases in which you want to shoot motion while pretending to do stills. Red it won't kill, but it will nibble away at the low side of their lunch..... -- J.S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Tyler Posted December 29, 2010 Share Posted December 29, 2010 Thanks for the report, John. The HD-SDI and off-board recording flexibility is very good news. I hope the viewfinder delay is software-fixable even if it means routing an unprocessed, off-color image to the viewfinder during recording. Although the AF100 is sure to sway some potential D-SLR buyers, I doubt it will "kill them off" since the AF100 is four times the price of a 60D. You didn't by any chance notice if the AF100 has a 1:1 mode like Panasonic's GH2, did you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deniz Coker Posted December 29, 2010 Share Posted December 29, 2010 Spent some time playing with one of these and I was pretty impressed. I liked how a lot of the menus seemed much more optimized and another gentleman also noticed it seemed much quicker as well. I didn't have a chance to scrutinize any of the footage but from the quick stuff we shot it seemed like it had lots of potential. I like that you can now quickly overcrank/undercrank using a dial on the back. Not a game changer for sure, but a nifty feature. I'm a little too lazy to go on, I'd probably only be repeating what others already stated; much more elegantly at that. But from a personal perspective it was odd for me to see them seemingly "ditch" P2 so quickly. I know they haven't and the way I see it is all of their major cameras have heavily adopted the format. But on a personal level as someone who invested in both P2 hardware and established a workflow around it, I wasn't crazy about such a change, especially because of how close I'd like to lump it with an HPX170. I mean the ingestion process isn't different at all, I had just assumed it would be an HPX that natively has interchangeable lenses. Maybe that's what the HPX370 is for... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member John Sprung Posted December 29, 2010 Premium Member Share Posted December 29, 2010 You didn't by any chance notice if the AF100 has a 1:1 mode like Panasonic's GH2, did you? Not sure what you mean by a 1:1 mode.... -- J.S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Tyler Posted December 29, 2010 Share Posted December 29, 2010 From http://www.eoshd.com/content/457-Panasonic-GH2-1-1-crop-mode-changes-everything-again 1:1 crop mode is a tap directly into the sensor, it takes a 1920x1080 window from the centre of the sensor so no scaling or image processing is required. It then takes this RAW sensor data and bypasses the usual image processor completely, sending it direct & uncompressed to the encoder chip. It's stored in AVCHD 24Mbit, 24p but unlike the GH1 this is a decent rock steady implementation of AVCHD - a bit like the AF100, with b-frames and just more advanced all round. It looks better than the GH1's hacked 44Mbit AVCHD. A 16mm or Super16 lens mounted on the GH2 just covers the 1920x1080 portion of the sensor, so you get a cleaner image but you loose the shallow DoF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member John Sprung Posted December 29, 2010 Premium Member Share Posted December 29, 2010 There's a reply somewhere down the thread in that link that makes some sense about it not being reasonable to truly go 1:1 from a Bayer sensor (But it then gets wrong the idea that it would work on a Genesis/F35 stripe array). There might be such a mode on this camera, but it wasn't mentioned today. The presentation was mostly ad hoc Q&A, it might not have come up..... -- J.S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Phil Rhodes Posted December 29, 2010 Premium Member Share Posted December 29, 2010 Deniz, If you want to maintain the usefulness of your P2 investment in the face of cameras that use SD cards, well, you could always take a hacksaw to your P2 cards and extract the SD cards inside! I'm only half joking, too. Frankly I'm pleased to see P2 start to die, much as it makes life uncomfortable for those with an investment in it. It was never a well-thought-out approach to shooting video on flash memory. P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Tyler Posted December 29, 2010 Share Posted December 29, 2010 I don't think Panasonic's choice to use SD in the AF100 indicates P2's imminent demise. The P2 format offers very fast write speeds that are not necessary with the AF100's bit rates and codecs. Keeping media costs down makes the AF100 easier to buy for those without P2 card stock on hand. I'm also seeing more external recorders being used on shoots that don't have time to dump cards, or if they want specific codecs not native to the camera. The AF100's HD-SDI output accommodates that trend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deniz Coker Posted December 29, 2010 Share Posted December 29, 2010 Phil, Ha! Can't say the thought hasn't crossed my mind! In the very least, I've gotten my money's worth out of them already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sri Milani Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 Some of this footage doesn't look very impressive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Prohaska Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 (edited) I've had the camera over a month now and find it to be just like any other camera, with the user making the difference. Many have picked this thing up without reading about internal settings and called it crap, while those who have spent enough time with it find it to be very capable and fantastic on a lot of levels. I was one of the guys who after taking it out the box and shooting something quickly nearly had a heart-attack due to my stupidity, and not until a day later actually tore through the book by Barry to find out why it wasn't looking how I was hoping. This camera definitely needs the user to know the internal settings. Honestly I think most of the presets the camera came with can work great as I've seen a ton of stuff taken with them and great results, but every person wants something different. Some don't mind the noise in Cine-D and prefer the latitude, and some prefer the Detail level at 0 or higher while others don't like the halo and EE you can get from even a setting like -2 or -3...so they stick to -5 or less. Some want something super clean so they choose B.Press (the lowest noise gamma) and use Knee to help with highlight handling, or if they want one of the cine settings will use Cine-V which is 2nd place for clean signal but you lose the Knee function. It's like cooking...a little of this a little of that and find the taste you like. Yes the camera can have some issues with highlights but again the internal settings make a big difference. Many I think just want the camera to make up for their poor exposure tendencies because they've been spoiled a little by other cameras. Yes, a camera should be good at handling highlights and I don't think this camera is awful at that, but lots of people don't expose well to begin with and are looking for some sort of magic camera that makes up for their poor shooting techniques. The camera does have some chroma clipping in the highlights which can be annoying but didn't the Varicam have similar issues? I swear I just saw a film shot on it recently that had purple in the highlights of stadium lights. It's no excuse, but hardly anything detrimental or new to the game. I find the camera to be exactly what I want in a DSLR and can't have for whatever reason. The XLR's, the ND's, focus assist, HDMI/HDSDI out, etc. The weight of the thing with a simple Nikon Nikkor on it is actually LIGHTER than the Canon 5D with standard 24-105. Even the Canon 5D naked with no lens is heavier than the AF100 by 3 ounces, and if you remove the AF100's side grip or top handle it can be even lighter. So it has the weight advantages of a DSLR without the disadvantages of using one. The rolling shutter is there but not even close to the kind of jello you can get on the 5D/7D, and the moiring is for the most part a thing of the part. It can still be there in very VERY specific circumstances but for the most part it's gone. Turning up your detail setting on the camera definitely will make the issue worse or bring it into play. EVF is garbage but there aren't any cameras I've ever owned that have a good internal EVF. Battery life is really nice with the built-in battery, and I'm actually really shocked at how much you can fit onto the little SD cards. They're super cheap and honestly the on-board codec is far better than anyone things. Yes, it's 420 and a lower bit-rate then maybe I would like, but after using it in different situations I think it's a lot better than most would jump to assume. I was one of the people who lit up AF100 threads around the internet about how awful the codec was until I really put it through the motions. It holds up really well and even people using Nanoflash or something similar find the difference (especially to the eye) between on-board and high bit-rate 422 8-bit external negligible at best. The difference will be there in the CC process, but even so the on-board holds its own. Don't let it scare you away, try it for yourself. Not a perfect camera by any stretch of the imagination, but incredibly solid and for $5000 what's to complain about? Did I mention it has 1080p60? :) Edited May 17, 2011 by Kyle Prohaska Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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