Dan Meyerowitz Posted January 28, 2005 Share Posted January 28, 2005 when I'm filming inside and want to correct the way the outside looks through the windows, do I use a #80A or #85 filter. In addition I'm looking to buy the one that does what my previous question asks, which brand of filters is my best bet. Just to clarify I'm looking for a 72mm lense mounted filter. Thanks in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allen Achterberg Posted January 28, 2005 Share Posted January 28, 2005 when I'm filming inside and want to correct the way the outside looks through the windows, do I use a #80A or #85 filter. In addition I'm looking to buy the one that does what my previous question asks, which brand of filters is my best bet. Just to clarify I'm looking for a 72mm lense mounted filter. Thanks in advance. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The 85 is primarily used to correct the color of tungsten balanced film (3200K) when shooting in daylight (5600K) I like Schneider... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Salzmann Posted January 28, 2005 Share Posted January 28, 2005 Tiffen and Harrison are also good filters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member David Mullen ASC Posted January 28, 2005 Premium Member Share Posted January 28, 2005 The 85 is primarily used to correct the color of tungsten balanced film (3200K) when shooting in daylight (5600K) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> To be more precise, the orange 85B filter corrects 5500K light to 3200K so that it looks "white" on tungsten-balanced film stock. So if you are using tungsten stock in a daylight interior situation, you either need to light everything with daylight lamps and then use an 85B filter on the lens, or you need to gel the windows with Sun 85 and use tungsten lights indoors, no filter on the camera. The blue 80A corrects 3200K light to 5500K for daylight-balanced film stock. Or you could put Full CTB gel on the tungsten lamps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Meyerowitz Posted January 28, 2005 Author Share Posted January 28, 2005 (edited) To be more precise, the orange 85B filter corrects 5500K light to 3200K so that it looks "white" on tungsten-balanced film stock. So if you are using tungsten stock in a daylight interior situation, you either need to light everything with daylight lamps and then use an 85B filter on the lens, or you need to gel the windows with Sun 85 and use tungsten lights indoors, no filter on the camera. The blue 80A corrects 3200K light to 5500K for daylight-balanced film stock. Or you could put Full CTB gel on the tungsten lamps. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> ok but if im shooting with tungsten (i know its the light but maybe someone could go into more detail og it for me) lighting and I put the 85A on would that not only convert the incoming daylight and leave the inside light the same ore would that bump the temp (i think) up also. Or are you saying that because I'm putting the gel on the window I'm only filtering the window light, thus leaving the inside light unnaffected unlike what the on camera filter would do. Edited January 28, 2005 by Dan Meyerowitz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member David Mullen ASC Posted January 28, 2005 Premium Member Share Posted January 28, 2005 A camera filter changes the entire image, so if you are shooting with tungsten-balanced film under both tungsten light and with real daylight, putting an 85B filter on the camera would correct the daylight to tungsten (5500K to 3200K) BUT make the tungsten lights look very orange. The relative difference in color between the tungsten light and the daylight would remain. You have to FIRST correct every light source in the room to MATCH each other before you can then use an overall correction filter on the camera. If you have tungsten light mixed with natural daylight, you either have to gel the tungsten lamps blue (convert it from 3200K to 5500K) or gel the daylight windows orange (convert 5500K to 3200K) so that they match each other -- either make the tungsten lights daylight-balanced or the daylight tungsten-balanced. Now if you make everything daylight-balanced and you are shooting with tungsten-balanced stock, THEN you can use the 85B camera filter to correct the daylight to tungsten. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Meyerowitz Posted January 28, 2005 Author Share Posted January 28, 2005 ok but if im shooting with tungsten (i know its the light but maybe someone could go into more detail og it for me) lighting and I put the 85A on would that not only convert the incoming daylight and leave the inside light the same ore would that bump the temp (i think) up also. Or are you saying that because I'm putting the gel on the window I'm only filtering the window light, thus leaving the inside light unnaffected unlike what the on camera filter would do. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Oh one more thing im in high school so my budget is that of well a high school student. so what are my affordable options. thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Kevin Zanit Posted January 28, 2005 Premium Member Share Posted January 28, 2005 If you use the 80A your tungsten (on daylight balanced film) will be rendered as neutral in color. The windows will still be blue. If the window plays a big part in the scene, your best bet is to probably shoot daylight balanced, and then filter your tungsten lights accordingly (with F-CTB). No matter which way you go, you will be loosing light. Tungsten is a type of light source whose color temperature is 3200 degrees Kelvin. It is more orange in color than daylight, whose color temperature is 5600 degrees Kelvin (daylight will actually vary greatly, but this is the accepted convention). As you can see, the higher the number, the bluer the light is. Kevin Zanit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member David Mullen ASC Posted January 28, 2005 Premium Member Share Posted January 28, 2005 Well, you can't get around physics. If you want the color temperatures to match, you have to match them. You can use fluorescents that are close to daylight-balance, for example, in daylight interior scenes. You can use blue-dipped photoflood bulbs (250 watt and 500 watt) which are 4800K, slightly warmer than daylight. You can use reflectors to bounce the daylight into a room and around the room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Meyerowitz Posted January 28, 2005 Author Share Posted January 28, 2005 so basically I'm screwed. I love film but its just such an expensive hobby, well hopefully a career, but I mean wow. So I know this sounds off subject. but your saying that i need lights, which I know I do. The thing is i have no money to buy asome quality lights, which is what I want. Quality is important but I believe that in some cases quality=money for equipment at least. so in conclusion I'm thinking that saving for lights would be my best bet, but what should i do in the mean time, I dont want to put out crap but my ag-dvx100a cant just sit in my AG-HT100G. So what should i do? I know total tangent from my previous question and the thread in general but I could really use some advice from what so far are the people who know the most about Cinematography.Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member David Mullen ASC Posted January 28, 2005 Premium Member Share Posted January 28, 2005 so basically I'm screwed. I love film but its just such an expensive hobby, <{POST_SNAPBACK}> What has film got to do with your lighting problem? You'd have the same color temp issues if shooting video. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allen Achterberg Posted January 28, 2005 Share Posted January 28, 2005 What has film got to do with your lighting problem? You'd have the same color temp issues if shooting video. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> just gel the windows, its not that hard or expensive. and if you are shooting on video you just might want to use some ND on the window too due to videos poor lattitude. convert the daylight coming in to 3200k and cut off some of that light. or do as David said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Chris Keth Posted January 28, 2005 Premium Member Share Posted January 28, 2005 so basically I'm screwed. I love film but its just such an expensive hobby, well hopefully a career, but I mean wow. So I know this sounds off subject. but your saying that i need lights, which I know I do. The thing is i have no money to buy asome quality lights, which is what I want. Quality is important but I believe that in some cases quality=money for equipment at least. so in conclusion I'm thinking that saving for lights would be my best bet, but what should i do in the mean time, I dont want to put out crap but my ag-dvx100a cant just sit in my AG-HT100G. So what should i do? I know total tangent from my previous question and the thread in general but I could really use some advice from what so far are the people who know the most about Cinematography.Thanks. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> If lights are your problem, shoot faster film or video so you don't have to bring as great of a quantity of light. That way, you can spend your resources on bolstering the parts of your scene that need sweetening rather than just getting a shootable stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member John Pytlak RIP Posted January 28, 2005 Premium Member Share Posted January 28, 2005 Filters and color correction: http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/support/h2/index_fi.shtml http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/support/h1/exposure.shtml http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/students....4.9.6.26&lc=en Hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Greg Gross Posted January 31, 2005 Premium Member Share Posted January 31, 2005 Another way you might do this is to make daylight the dominant light source inside(int.) if its possible to do so. IF ITS POSSIBLE! Depending on light sources inside,reflectors such as gold,silver, etc. could be used to modify int. light to dominantly daylight. Thus no use of filter on camera. Unlike a lot of these fellows here, I will go to extremes not to use a filter as I don't like filters on my glass(definitely do not like to stack). I guess your situation here depends on the size of the windows involved. This is just simply called modifying light. Another thing to consider is that while you are modifying the light,you may see some creative effect you like. Dare to be creative,push beyond! Greg Gross Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Salzmann Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 If you can't afford any of the suggested options than you have to find a location that is possible for you to master. It is possible to put a pickle through a Cheerio. You just need a small pickle or a large Cheerio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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