Epic and Scarlet release in 2010

[Steven Sherrick]

Your point?

The RED One with the MX sensor upgrade is NOT the same as "RED One"

If it was, there would never have been the upgrade.

The MX upgrade is really the camera the RED one should have been in the first place except, as Mr Jannard is so fond of pointing out, they didn't know what they were doing. B)

Or maybe the Epic is the camera the RED One should have been....

Shoulda, Oughta, didn't....

Keith, I'll admit, I don't know you. Perhaps I don't get your sense of humor, or maybe you have a bone to pick with Jim. But something is not quite in balance here. In fact, it's threads like these that really disappoint me. Not that people dislike a particular piece of technology. That I can understand. It's the lengths people go to bash it. I like RED. I like Jim. I own a camera. I support the company in what they are doing. I also love what Arri is doing, what canon is doing, etc. I especially see Arri and RED complimenting each other in the sense that they will push each other to make better products, which is good for us endusers. I've always admired David Mullen for his openminded approach. He does not write off a camera system until he has thoroughly tested it, and even then he usually has something positive to say, even if it is critical. I like to think I have a similar approach.

 

I truly wish that a lot of these threads could stay positive, focusing on the facts, peppered with some healthy debate/speculation. When they sink into personal attacks, deep rooted agendas, etc. it's no longer fun and informative. When you have to resort to saying RED is not being used much, or infer that high end professionals are not using it, just seems petty to me and doesn't represent reality. I've done work for a very reputable shop in New York who's RED imagery you have seen in a LOT of commercials, but they don't boast about what camera they use, they just use what works best for them on a given project and they continue to produce exceptional work no matter what the medium. They have an excellent understanding of the RED, and how to get the most out of it. They shoot a lot of tungsten and never complain about it. They just know what they're doing. It could be a film job, a varicam job, or a phantom shoot. Doesn't seem to matter. Perfect example of the old saying "it's about the people using the gear".

 

As I said at the beginning I don't know you. I could be missing something here. Just seems like in reading this thread, the vibe wasn't very good. If I'm wrong, I apologize.

[Keith Walters]

If I'm wrong, I apologize.

You are.

Apology accepted.

If you want to understand us better, I'd suggest you read some of the "back issues" of the RED folder perhaps starting with this post :lol:

Generally the straight answer to legitimate question ratio here is quite pathetic.

Some people are fine with that, some of us aren't.

Anyway, if you want some real RED-oriented abuse, try Cinematography.NET! We're nowhere near as rude as those guys...

[Stephen Williams]

I truly wish that a lot of these threads could stay positive,

 

Hi,

 

You are not looking for balanced, your looking for positive feedback, you own a camera so have money at risk.

 

I agree that MX is really the camera that was promised, any one who paid for the upgraded sensor gets more 'free as usual' software upgrades, sounds good to many. Not sure how all the 'M' owners will feel when Scarlet is a shipping product, especially if they bought into obsolescence obsolete.

 

Best,

 

Stephen

[Steven Sherrick]

Hi,

 

You are not looking for balanced, your looking for positive feedback, you own a camera so have money at risk.

 

I agree that MX is really the camera that was promised, any one who paid for the upgraded sensor gets more 'free as usual' software upgrades, sounds good to many. Not sure how all the 'M' owners will feel when Scarlet is a shipping product, especially if they bought into obsolescence obsolete.

 

Best,

 

Stephen

Sorry Stephen, you are wrong about this. if you have followed me at all on Reduser you know that I'm a fairly balanced voice on there. my camera does not nees to go out on rentals. I've passed on a number of opportunities to rent it out and take advantage of my low M-X number. i'm extremely open to working with various camera systems. this is not a one camera world. i do enjoy using the Red and I fully support what they are doing but that doesn't mean i ignore everything else. i'm excited about all of the technology. i'm even coming around on 3D. :-)

 

let's have a beer sometime and I think you'll get a better read on me.

[Emanuel A Guedes]

The difference is marginally due to 4K versus 2K or 1080p. The old transfer was simply suffering from poor quality DNR and way overdone

sharpening turning everything into video garbage. One of the worst transfers for a major movie they dared to release on BD (together with

"Gangs of New York" which also got a reissue with a new transfer lately).

 

Well, as Aristotle said, «the whole is more than the sum of its parts» ;-)

[Emanuel A Guedes]

If you want to understand us better, I'd suggest you read some of the "back issues" of the RED folder perhaps starting with this post :lol:

Generally the straight answer to legitimate question ratio here is quite pathetic.

Some people are fine with that, some of us aren't.

Anyway, if you want some real RED-oriented abuse, try Cinematography.NET! We're nowhere near as rude as those guys...

 

No, the naysayers didn't start to flame there. But three years earlier under the Jim Murdoch period, when I was the only one here holding the RED flag, well before having others to jump with me to the RED boat aka filmmaker's gang joke.

 

I'm sorry, I forgot you opened your current account later. ;)

[Keith Walters]

..... when I was the only one here holding the RED flag, well before having others to jump with me to the RED boat aka filmmaker's gang joke.

 

YOU were the "only one!?

Jeez, you must have been running a lot of accounts here."

Are you really Jim Jannard in disguise?

And me and Stephen as well?

[Chris Gloag]

Is this an attack? :)

Edited August 16, 2010 by Chris Gloag

[Emanuel A Guedes]

YOU were the "only one!?

Jeez, you must have been running a lot of accounts here."

Are you really Jim Jannard in disguise?

And me and Stephen as well?

 

Is it a question or a statement both in disguise?

 

'cause if it is, I thought that many «über-variable English skills» you like to do mention in your words, they could explain a lot of "things".

 

Yes, I was the only one over here from day one, when it was me who brought others, even before the usual guys you like to harass with.

 

EDIT -- JFYI, in the recent RED DAY in Rome with Ted Shilowitz, 5% of people arrived with me, real people not any alias behind a keyboard somewhere in the planet Earth. The meeting occurred in Casa del Cinema's auditorium and was full of people, big one you know. But maybe 'cause RED doesn't exist, this had just been one of those nightmares of yours, a bad and real one. ;)

Edited August 16, 2010 by Emanuel A Guedes

[Keith Walters]

 

Yes, I was the only one over here from day one, when it was me who brought others, even before the usual guys you like to harass with.

Well I've just had a look back at day one, and everybody from there to quite a few months in seems to rank English amongst at least their first four languages, so if one (or all) of those posters is you, you're either developing Alzheimer's, or you've somehow forgotten how to speak English.

 

I've never heard of such a thing, but I suppose it's theoretically possible. Brain injuries can produce all sorts of bizarre symptoms. Some people are otherwise normal but can only speak numbers, not words. People who suffer from severe stuttering can sometimes sing without a problem. I guess I could imagine someone with the English sentence constructional ability of a four year old, who can spell better than an English professor. It would be a fascinating subject for research.

 

EDIT -- JFYI, in the recent RED DAY in Rome with Ted Shilowitz, 5% of people arrived with me, real people not any alias behind a keyboard somewhere in the planet Earth. The meeting occurred in Casa del Cinema's auditorium and was full of people, big one you know. But maybe 'cause RED doesn't exist, this had just been one of those nightmares of yours, a bad and real one. ;)

 

OK so, what have you actually shot with Donald Duck and his nephews? You got a show reel?

Anyway, I know REDs exist, I've actually seen one now and pressed the record button. I couldn't hang around to see the results as I had a hairdressing appointment, and had to visit one of my fellow Red-Haters who is in hospital after being found with his head in the oven after hearing that RED MX's will be used on Pirates of the Carribean, (fortunately it was an electric oven and he only received minor burns), but I'm sure the pictures were excellent :rolleyes:

[Emanuel A Guedes]

Yes Keith, you've been my english teacher of my online english course.

 

Mine and of both of my two blonde and brunette secretaries to whom I'm used to dictate my replies to you (what type do you like most? Be gentle on the answer 'cause they both fell in love :lol: and nobody wants fights over here).

 

We have more people attending our courses out there, plus instructors and so on, and some people need silence to work. Oh sorry, I forgot it is prime time in New South Wales. Next time, we'll think to add a program in australian english and culture (who knows it helps the number of attendees grow faster?).

 

About your showreel request, send to us how much are you thinking to help us with our funding stuff (you know, some people need RED cameras or whatever cameras you want, for living, not only for pressing the record button and they cost money) and then we talk.

[Frank Glencairn]

Keep it civil gentlemen.

 

Frank

[Frank Glencairn]

This is interesting. I´m not sure if this is because of the grading. Usually I like the skin tones of the Red, but in this example the Arri looks better in my book.

 

 

Frank

[Keith Walters]

This is interesting. I´m not sure if this is because of the grading. Usually I like the skin tones of the Red, but in this example the Arri looks better in my book.

 

 

Frank

The answer is really quite simple.

 

The RED has a harsh, loudmouthed "American" look

The Alexa has a more restrained, cool, stylish European appearance.

We're comparing Metallica to Kraftwerk here, what did you expect? :rolleyes:

 

Seriously, I have long suspected the chrominance bandwidth of the RED decoder has been fiddled to improve the apparent signal-to-noise ratio. I've often noticed that faces on RED-originated material look remarkably like what you get when you "colorize" old B&W photographs. The chrominance resolution is sharp at the face outline, but there is no chrominance detail in the middle, resulting in that characterisitc "brown-ish" appearance.

 

I'm actually in the process of writing software that produces DIY resolution charts on ordinary inkjet printers. A chrominance resolution test chart is a much bigger challenge, but I'm working on it!