Shooting w/ Avail Light, night ext NYC

[Guest David Woolner]

hey,

 

About half of the scenes in the film that I will begin shooting soon take pace on NYC streets at night. Our plan is to shoot 500T 7218 pushed 1 stop. We like the amount of grain, the contrast, and the benefit of less lighting. As much of the light will be provided by Sodium and Mercury Vapors, (which I plan on sometimes amplifying, ideas for gel cocktails?) my concern is continuity throughout, as unfortunately we do not have the budget to do a supervised transfer. In order to capture the best and most continuous look for the film, I am curious about how and when I should be grey carding. I definitely do not want to lose the color of the street lights, so I am cautious about placing a grey card in the scene for fear of it being made white. Might it be best to always have a separate tungsten practical to provide the reference? How often should I be providing the cards at the beginning of every roll, at a major shift in lighting? or at the start of every scene?

 

Thanks

 

DW

[Dan Salzmann]

Recently wrapped 2 projects in NY (mostly night exteriors) on 5218 that will be finished on video.

With careful location scouting we were able to avoid pushing the film - this stock has fantastic latitude.

In super16mm I would be very careful before pushing.

Try to use the fastest Zeiss primes.

If it is an important project maybe you can shoot a test roll.

Will it be a graded TC or a one light?

[Adam Frisch FSF]

Hi, we talked a little bit about grey cards in this thread:

 

Link

 

As for exposure, the scenes in NY with the elephants in Eternal Sunshine was shot

without any lights on Fuji's 500D. Looks great, so I don't think you need to push, unless

you want that special look where lights really start to blow out (the "postcard of a

cityscape"-look or time-lapse look).

[Sam Wells]

I definitely do not want to lose the color of the street lights, so I am cautious about placing a grey card in the scene for fear of it being made white.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well one thing that won't really happen is getting a white out of the sodium lights !

 

I would absolutely get an hour or two online/supervised telecine at the start of this, do a test lock in a look w/ the dailies colorist.

 

-Sam

[John Ealer]

The trick with sodium vapor lights is that if you decide you want to clean up that rusty-orange look, you end up adding so much cyan that other sources in the shot (say car headlights) become very cyan.

 

If you can't supervise the transfer, I would shoot digital stills of the first few setups every nightl, color correct them on a laptop during lunch, and send the stills to the transfer house with the film.

 

In terms of using gray cards and color charts, if you don't want to get get rid of any of the sodium vapor color, then just shoot the charts under a clean tungsten source. In a scenario like this, though, I think you'll get better results by communicating more specifically with the timer, either by being present at the first hour of transfer or by sending the digital stills.

 

J

[Guest David Woolner]

I appreciate all the response.

 

While I have an idea about the graded TC (telecine?) and one light (same as best light?) I am unclear about the pros and cons of either, though I'm guessing TC would yield a more refined image.

 

I'd have to watch it again, but did the 500D in E Sunshine then yield an overtly blue feel, and how might that contrast with the 7218 pushed-1?

 

Again, because finances and the lack of supervised transfer, I am nervous to over expose as much as I might normally (plan to shoot at ISO1000 rather than ISO800). This is again for fear of throwing an added problem into the equation which would need solving in a supervised setting. Any thoughts?

 

Thanks again

 

DW

[DavidSloan]

As others have stated, I don't see why you would need to push the film. 7218 and the right locations will yield professional results with no additional lights, or push.

 

Btw, if you do decide to use a unit to "help" the streetlamps, I found chocolate gel to work great.

 

Regarding the telecine, what lab do you plan on using? If you visit a "student friendly" lab, in NYC, such as Moving Images, they will allow you to talk to the colorist before the job, and maybe even set a shot or 2.

 

For the gray card, I would be interested to hear what other members say regarding what light to shoot it under. I think that shooting it under "white light" is probably best. But I've heard from a lab technician that you should shoot it in the light you shoot under.

 

Good luck.

[John Ealer]

For the gray card, I would be interested to hear what other members say regarding what light to shoot it under.  I think that shooting it under "white light" is probably best.  But I've heard from a lab technician that you should shoot it in the light you shoot under.

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Remember the gray card and color chart are tools to communicate with the timer, it's your way of telling the timer what gray is supposed to look like.

 

Generally speaking, when a gray card appears on a roll, the timer will naturally and correctly assume that it's supposed to be gray.

 

If you want to keep the sodium vapor look, then shooting the chart under the sodium vapor light is counterproductive since the timer will assume he/she's supposed to get rid of all the orange and make the card look neutral 18% gray. On the other hand, if you want to try and get rid of the sodium vapor color, then by all means shoot the chart under the sodium vapor light. The colorist will jump through hoops adding blue and green to try and make the image look "normal."

 

If you shoot your gray card under a clean tungsten light, the timer will set up the transfer to it; when he/she hits the sodium vapor orange in your first shot, he/she will leave it in, knowing it was intentional. However, if you're ever going to do something this extreme, you need to make a note of it on the camera reports or lab purchase order if you can't communicate with the timer directly. Colorists, in the absence of explicit instructions, will always transfer the film "safe" - which means getting rid of what is usually considered an "ugly" orange hue.

 

J

[DavidSloan]

Thanks, John. Btw, your reel is superb :)