Digibeta with film primes

Ryan K · February 16, 2005

Does anyone have any notion, or better yet, some images of the results of sticking film primes on the front of a Digibeta camera? I'm doing a short in a few months and as the budget doesn't facilitate Super16 i'm looking at other avenues. I'm told that this set-up works well but if anyone has their own testimony or advice it would be most appreciated.

Phil Rhodes · February 16, 2005

Hi,

I get the impression people do that mainly for the ease of focus pulling film primes - the differences otherwise are present but pretty minimal to my eye, other than the different flare characteristics of a zoom. Kind of expensive just for that convenience.

Phil

Rik Andino · February 16, 2005

From what I understand about lenses and video format

A Digibeta Lens (just like an HD lens) has got to be much better than a film lens

Just to get a decent image--

It has something to do with the pixel size and the size of the CCD chip...

So I don't know if adding a cine lens will affect the image that much

At least not enough to make it worth the money.

If you want to shoot S16 you should shoot S16

Do the numbers and see if you're saving that much

If you're shooting a 10 min short

The cost of film & development at a 10:1 ratio is around $2500 bucks

That's not that much for a much better looking short.

Anyways good luck

Elhanan Matos · February 17, 2005

I don't know about using Film lenses on a Digibeta camera, but It's getting more and more common for people to use a Fuji or Canon HD zoom on their Standard Def cameras. If youre interested in using Primes on a Digibeta camera take a look at the Digiprimes, or the Fujiprimes, and I believe canon has a set of primes as well. Using HD lenses will be much easier for you to use than Film lenses.

John Ealer · February 17, 2005

I think you'd have better results with a progressive scan camera, like the Panasonic SDX-900, than with Digibeta, regardless of lensing.

I personally prefer using digital primes rather than film primes with the PS Technik converter.

J

Allen Achterberg · February 17, 2005

Hi,

I get the impression people do that mainly for the ease of focus pulling film primes - the differences otherwise are present but pretty minimal to my eye, other than the different flare characteristics of a zoom. Kind of expensive just for that convenience.

Phil

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well, the speed of the lens has something to do with choice...and nobody likes a breathing lens which is another good reason to go primes.

Mark Sasahara · February 17, 2005

To use 35mm primes on your digibeta, you will probably want to use the P+S Technik Pro 35 lens adapter. This will allow you to use 35mm cine primes and zooms on a 2/3" video camera. Shallow depth of field, faster lenses, easier focus pulling and similar work flows for your first A/C are part of the reason for using them. The Zeiss Digiprimes are really nice, Canon have also come out with a range of primes for 2/3" cameras.

Sony just came out with a new Digibeta camera that will do 24P-Woo hoo! Real colors! Real cameras! Go to the press room and check out the announcement on Sony's website. You might be able to rent one when you do your shoot. Otherwise the SDX-900 might be a nice way to go. Varicam? There's a bunch of lower priced HD cams that just came out by both Sony and Panasonic, Rental houses may have them by the time you shoot.

New Sony Digibeta w/24PsF- whatever the F PsF is.

http://news.sel.sony.com/pressrelease/5586

Sam Wells · February 17, 2005

You can't just "stick" film primes on D-beta cameras.

If you're talking aboout the P&S adaptor, OK, it's designed for that.

Otherwise there are real issues with rear focus and correction for aberrations, especially with wide angle lenses.

Whereas Zeiss digiprimes - which are superb - and the others mentioned here are designed specifically for 3 chip prism optics cameras.

-Sam

Ryan K · February 17, 2005

Thanks all. Sage advice indeed. As my short is being shot along with another slate of shorts funded by the N.I.F.T.C we may be able to block book a varicam and get a kit of Digiprimes with it, which would be delightful. Now, can I still afford to get a tilt focus lens for it.....

Phil Rhodes · February 17, 2005

Hi,

> well, the speed of the lens has something to do with choice

That implies that film primes are generally faster than video zooms, which isn't true. Even my horrible cheap and nasty video zoom opens up to F1.3 (Actually wider than that, but it just says "open" - it looks like about another half a stop), and only fairly upmarket film lenses do that.

Phil

Michael Nash · February 17, 2005

Hi,

> well, the speed of the lens has something to do with choice

That implies that film primes are generally faster than video zooms, which isn't true. Even my horrible cheap and nasty video zoom opens up to F1.3 (Actually wider than that, but it just says "open" - it looks like about another half a stop), and only fairly upmarket film lenses do that.

Phil

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True, almost all 2/3" video lenses are T 1.6, although the quality drops off a bit when wide open. Many film primes are slower than that.

The Zeiss Digiprimes are hands down the best for video, but also the most expensive. Canon, Fujinon and Angenieux all make HD primes and zooms.

Many of the HD zooms are constructed to minimize breathing, and look pretty darned smooth when you do a focus pull. It's not uncommon to shoot a whole HD feature with only two zoom lenses; one long and one short.

When choosing an HD zoom, be sure to specify whether you want the "ENG" or "Cine" version. ENG lenses are designed for traditional hand-held eng-style shooting, with short focus rotation and a zoom motor built in. Cine-style lenses are often the same glass but re-wroked to have a longer focus rotation and better focus marks on the barrel (and no zoom motor).

If you want to introduce an additional "optical" quality to the video lenses, you can experiment with filters such as lowcons and ultracons, or diffusion. I've got a decent "filmic" look for video by combining filters with slight electronic adjustments of black level and gamma. But try out whatever you think is right for your project.

Phil Rhodes · February 17, 2005

Hi,

You know that the zoom grip just bolts on?

Phil

Michael Nash · February 17, 2005

Hi,

You know that the zoom grip just bolts on?

Phil

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Oh yes, I'm quite aware of that. But simply removing the ENG zoom grip doesn't make the lens into a cine version. The difference in focus rotation and barrel markings is considerable. I'm not sure you can just bolt an ENG motor onto a cine-style lens, either. Never looked into that though.

Allen Achterberg · February 18, 2005

Hi,

> well, the speed of the lens has something to do with choice

That implies that film primes are generally faster than video zooms, which isn't true. Even my horrible cheap and nasty video zoom opens up to F1.3 (Actually wider than that, but it just says "open" - it looks like about another half a stop), and only fairly upmarket film lenses do that.

Phil

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