I want to be a Colorist

[Guest steven_de_bont]

Hello

 

I want to work as colorist, but I've no clue where to learn that. I've been doing Visual Effects Compositing for a while. I studied BFA Photography. So, i basically understand Colors, Film, Grain, Exposures and stuff like that...

 

Please do suggest me if there is any school or place where I can get the training.

 

Thanks

SDB

[Nathan D. Lee]

I dont know of any schools. But my best recommendation would be to become good freinds with a colorist and tell him you want to learn. I am in Seattle and recently spent the evening with the night colorist at Modern Digital, Bill Lord. They let me come on a light work night and he pretty much taught me for 6 hours. I also got to try my hand at the Davinci and mess around with some S16 stock. It was a wonderfull expirience and i am sure there are many people around the globe that will treat you likewise. Just pop in and let them know! It never hurts to ask.

[Phil Rhodes]

Hi,

 

I'm not so sure about that; I've been quite lucky, but you should be aware that most colourists have a long line of people waiting behind them to do the job, which has to have one of the highest glamour to difficulty ratios in modern filmmaking.

 

Phil

[David Cox]

I would suggest that you get a job, any job, in a facility that has telecine. Generally, getting into the post industry is more difficult than moving around when you are in it. So get a job as a runner, machine room op etc (the latter will teach you useful things such as technical specs, machine information and working under pressure.) Then progress through. Most facilties not only allow but encourage juniors to "play" with the kit. Then one day when the colorist has had too much champaigne, your in. If you don't screw it up, you might have your first client :D

 

which has to have one of the highest glamour to difficulty ratios in modern filmmaking.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Then you have to work on loving yourself and making sure everyone knows how special you are. You have to be famous for a "look", no matter how simple it is and keep churning that out as long as you can persuade people its a contempory look "that everyone wants".

 

There's a Telecine guy near here, who to hide identity we'll call Frank. He came up with a "green" look (crushed blacks, green mid tones - simple!). After a while it led to the rhyme - "Roses are green, Violets are green, everything's green in Frank's telecine machine!"

 

He gets paid a fortune :rolleyes:

[Theo Lipfert]

There is a book -- Color Correction for DV published by CMP Press -- and the author does training. I spoke to him recently, asking the same question as you -- and his reply was that in addition to him (who trains mostly corporate clients, etc.) DaVinci does training at their location in Florida. I also found Digitial Film Tree in L.A. that does training for color correction on final cut. Look into getting Synthetic Aperature's Color Finesse as well -- kind of a poor man's DaVinci for video -- but way better than 3-way color corrector and other FCP tools. Comes free with After Effects Pro 6.5 -- but that version only runs on AE, not FCP.

 

If you can't weasel your way into a facility, I would try to learn by doing, and find some low-rent docs or something other projects that could use some color correction work.

 

Good luck

 

Theo

Bozeman, MT

[Adam Frisch FSF]

It's such an important - and hard job. Really, really challenging to do well which I think is a good thing since then you'll probably not get tired or bored doing it. My hats go off to good colorists - they save my day and make me look good. Unfortunately, the really brilliant ones are quite far and few between.

[Phil Rhodes]

Hi,

 

> It's such an important - and hard job.

 

No, it's not hard. Sorry. It just isn't. Because:

 

> You have to be famous for a "look", no matter how simple it is and keep churning

> that out as long as you can persuade people its a contempory look "that everyone

> wants".

 

See?

 

It's nothing to do with technical ability (Learn some software - and often fairly simple software at that. Like a quarter of Photoshop) or artistic ability (Make it monochrome, tint it warm for happy, cold for sad, or green for Matrix) - it's the standard film-industry, brown-nose-your-way-up, wear expensive clothes, talk fast and fashionable kind of drivel. If it seems hard, play with Photoshop for ten minutes, and reconsider.

 

Phil

[Nathan D. Lee]

Uh, Okay lets just stop that here.

The point is you can learn a lot in a lot of places, great suggestions have been made. Give them a shot and dont let negativity play a roll in your progress. Great colorists are needed for, yes, a detail oriented, demanding job. Good luck with it!

[John Pytlak RIP]

Read and learn from the Telecine Internet Group (TIG), where many colorists "hang out":

 

http://www.colorist.org

 

http://tig.colorist.org/mailman/listinfo/tig

 

A mailinglist and web presence for professionals working in film and video color correction. Since 1994 known as The Telecine Internet Group.

[Guest Frank Gossimier]

So you want to be a colourist?

 

That's a good choice of careers you'll save a fortune on shoes! Since you'll be sitting down all day. You'll save a fortune on sun glasses, since you'll never be outside, no need for sunglasses. You'll save a fortune on retirement costs, since you'll be leading a sedentary life style and eating greasy food all the time.

 

You may however develop some buttocks related problems, don't laugh it happens in the post biz.

 

I'm not sure the colourist gig is so hard to break into, I transfer at Deluxe Toronto on a monthly basis and there is a high turn over of colourists. Assistants of a year ago are my colourists today.

 

One good way to break in is to go in as client. Shoot some film and book your self a session, now you can meet all the folks involved in the process at the facility you choose. You can talk to the boss about a possible career, you're a client they have to be nice to you!

 

Here's my suggestion from a DP point of view for the aspiring colourist. Learn a few things about film cameras and the process of shooting film. Most of the colourists I talk to have no idea what registration is, or what may cause scratching, or what the various film stock numbers are.

 

You could learn most of that stuff in an afternoon of reading posts here.

 

It's good to know and makes you look more informed.

 

FYI, many colourists do burn out, be aware of that.

 

Frank

[Sam Wells]

  Most of the colourists I talk to have no idea what registration is, or what may cause scratching, or what the various film stock numbers are.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Really ??

 

These a professional colorists in high-end telecine suites, or ???

 

I'd stay out of That neighborhood.....

 

-Sam

[Guest Frank Gossimier]

Well they work at Deluxe Toronto. EVERY Hollywood feature shot in Toronto goes through their facility. What can I tell ya?

 

Frank

[Phil Rhodes]

Hi,

 

There's two breeds - people who just do video stuff, and other people, who do DI stuff as well. The latter, in my limited but increasing experience, tend to be brighter.

 

Phil

[Adam Frisch FSF]

Hi,

 

> It's such an important - and hard job.

 

No, it's not hard. Sorry. It just isn't. Because:

 

> You have to be famous for a "look", no matter how simple it is and keep churning

> that  out as long as you can persuade people its a contempory look "that everyone

> wants".

 

See?

 

It's nothing to do with technical ability (Learn some software - and often fairly simple software at that. Like a quarter of Photoshop) or artistic ability (Make it monochrome, tint it warm for happy, cold for sad, or green for Matrix) - it's the standard film-industry, brown-nose-your-way-up, wear expensive clothes, talk fast and fashionable kind of drivel. If it seems hard, play with Photoshop for ten minutes, and reconsider.

 

Phil

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I completely disagree. Very few colorists know their machines inside out. 9 times of 10 you encounter colorists who literally treat it like it's a Hazeltine machine - adjusting RGB and contrast only. There's a huge difference by first going in and adjusting the grey scales, secondaries, white compression, the gamma and so on. It takes a long time to know what to achieve and where to start achieveing it. That's why good colorists are far and few between and why they're so hard to find. That's also why the good ones are so busy - it's got nothing to do with looks. The good ones can deliver you any look you want and the best ones will show you 2-3 different looks before you even start.

 

Anybody who wants to see just how easy coloring is just has to open up Final Cut Pro or After Effects and try to color a scene there until it looks great. Not easy, let me tell you.

[Phil Rhodes]

Hi,

 

> 9 times of 10 you encounter colorists who literally treat it like it's a Hazeltine machine

 

Adam, that's exactly what I'm saying - any competent compositor or animator is already a better colourist than most colourists.

 

Phil

[Michael Most]

Hi,

 

>  9 times of 10 you encounter colorists who literally treat it like it's a Hazeltine machine

 

Adam, that's exactly what I'm saying - any competent compositor or animator is already a better colourist than most colourists.

 

Phil, you've been posting your "I have no respect for colorists" rants here for some time, but I have to say now that this statement is utter and complete bullshit.

 

Everybody has their job to do. A colorist's job, as a previous poster has noted, involves proper setup, a sense of technical discipline (which requires a degree of technical knowledge that I would be willing to bet a large sum of money that neither you nor your compositors and animators have), as well as a sense of aesthetics that make the colorist a contributor and collaborator rather than a button pusher. If you don't feel that you've ever had or seen this contribution and collaboration, it means that you haven't worked with a good colorist, not that they're talentless, overpaid hacks, as you would have everyone here believe. Fortunately, the only one here who seems to actually believe it is you. And while you and a colorist might be able to achieve similar looks given a copy of Photoshop, the fact remains that the colorist will achieve that look in a telecine or DI environment without destroying the integrity of the image with unacceptable noise and color imbalances - something I would also be willing to bet that you can't do.

[John Pytlak RIP]

Most good color timers/colorists have the amazing skill of being able to maintain continuity of the color balance over hundreds of scenes, and are able to come very close to the final answer print timing with only minor corrections needed from the first timed print. It is a very different world from still photography.

[Phil Rhodes]

Hi,

 

You may be right - perhaps I've worked with some bad colourists, but I've never seen one do anything I thought was particularly clever, with few (but not zero) exceptions.

 

Technical knowledge? What, interpretation of a parade, waveform monitor and vectorscope? Timecode and keykode operations? Lacing the thing up? Be more specific. What's the secret technical knowhow?

 

> the colorist will achieve that look in a telecine or DI environment without destroying

> the integrity of the image with unacceptable noise and color imbalances

 

That's particularly good coming from someone whose experience is in high-end 35mm film grading, where you can get away with more or less anything. At least, you can get away with anything compared to grading DV, which is what I've done most of. Yes, yes, I know, if it's DV in After Effects it isn't "grading" according to The Almighty Colorist, but that's an artificial distinction created to reinforce the status quo. While we're impugning each other's abilities, I'd hazard a guess that you'd probably run screaming from the situation in which I generally work. I know whereof I speak - I've had the opportunity to play extensively with 2K film scans recently, and my first reaction was "Christ, this is easier."

 

Phil

[Guest Kai.w]

. A colorist's job, as a previous poster has noted, involves proper setup, a sense of technical discipline (which requires a degree of technical knowledge that I would be willing to bet a large sum of money that neither you nor your compositors and animators have), as well as a sense of aesthetics that make the colorist a contributor and collaborator rather than a button pusher.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Uh... so do you say a compositor is a button pusher ? :D

 

sorry, could not resist.

 

-k

[John Pytlak RIP]

That's particularly good coming from someone whose experience is in high-end 35mm film grading, where you can get away with more or less anything. At least, you can get away with anything compared to grading DV, which is what I've done most of. Yes, yes, I know, if it's DV in After Effects it isn't "grading" according to The Almighty Colorist, but that's an artificial distinction created to reinforce the status quo. While we're impugning each other's abilities, I'd hazard a guess that you'd probably run screaming from the situation in which I generally work. I know whereof I speak - I've had the opportunity to play extensively with 2K film scans recently, and my first reaction was "Christ, this is easier."

 

Phil

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I suspect grading DV is sometimes like "trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear". ;)

[Phil Rhodes]

Hi,

 

Kind of. The thing is, your ability to perform said pigskin-to-fine-fabric conversion is limited by the format, whereas if someone makes a pig's ear out of a film shoot, you have a lot further you can go to fix it up into something a lady might like to keep her belongings in.

 

Which to my mind makes the video job harder.

 

Phil

[Guest steven_de_bont]

any competent compositor or animator is already a better colourist than most colourists.

 

Phil

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

This is true to a large extent i geuss. Certainly not the Animator, but the Compositor who works on the final comps.

[Rolfe Klement]

I did a job with Gary Szabo at Red once where he noticed during a slight zoom there was a very, very slight color change in the greens and he keyframed the correction in - I saw it after about 5 reruns on a 24" pro monitor - but he noticed straight up. That was the worship moment for me...

 

Having said that I have never had a TK session when the source format was video - but from playing around with CC on Video Programs and even on Discreet high end stuff (FFI) I can see the pigskin -silk problem or as a producer said to me once

 

"You can't polish sh-t" :) no offence to video

 

my 2 cents in defence of £900/h TK

 

Rolfe