SKI'N'FILM Posted March 21, 2004 Share Posted March 21, 2004 Hi, I'm really, really new to film, I've been using digi cameras for awhile and have been editing on FCP 4 with mini dv. I heard that film can be transferred to mini dv fairly easy if you have a studio near you that is capable of that. Anyway I wanted to get a camera either 8mm or 16mm real cheap. I'm on the cheapest budget cause I'm in college and always skip to go skiing. And I thought I might as well try to make a living out of skiing by filming it and editing some movies. The digital cameras I use don't even come close to the quality of film and to make it in todays world of ski movies you need to use some film. Like in Warren Miller film the film quality is awesome, I'm not hoping to get quality that good but I was hoping to at least know"it was shot on film" kinda effect. I was looking at these cameras on ebay any tips or suggestions would help so much: heres the 8mm camera's http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ViewItem&item=3803552251&category=4691 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...1&category=4691 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...6&category=4691 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...3&category=4691 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...0&category=4691 here's the 16mm http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...8&category=4691 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...0&category=4691 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...5&category=4691 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...2&category=4691 These are the choices I had any suggestions would be great. I just wanted something to learn on and mess around on until I learned enough to spend alot on a camera. But I also wanted something where I could see the difference between film and dv. I'm sure that won't be a problem though no matter what i get. Also if anyone knows of any better deals or cheaper or if anyone is selling a film camera who reads this please email me at ATVEB@aol.com or just respond to this topic.. THANKS ALOT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fulgencio Martinez Posted March 22, 2004 Share Posted March 22, 2004 The last 16 camera seems the best choice if you really want awesome pictures. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...2&category=4691 Negative and processing costs are the same for 16mm and for Super16mm so the second is the best choice. If you are new to film you should becarefu. Don´t be a fast buyer. The first 16 camera as i think is not reflex so you won´t be able to see the exact picture you are framing. Most of this cameras are spring wound motor so they can do 30 seconds shoots. Maybe it´s ok for you. If you are to do ski action maybe it´s ok Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Tim Carroll Posted March 22, 2004 Premium Member Share Posted March 22, 2004 I have to disagree with Fulgencio about the Bolex which the owner is claiming was converted to Super 16 by Bolex of Switzerland. That is a very old model and Bolex will not convert them. That camera was made back in the late fifties and is one of the very first reflex cameras Bolex put out. I would personally steer clear of that camera. If you are just looking for something to play around with, go with something in Super 8. The Bolex's on ebay are Regular 8mm or what was called Double 8. It is getting very tough to get film for those cameras. Kodak still sells Super 8mm film and places like Pro 8mm in California have a large selection of film speeds and types available for Super 8mm. If you want to go with 16mm, try to find a Bolex RX4 or RX5, or an SB, SBM, or EBM. All these will give you very high quality 16mm images, and all of them can be converted to Super 16mm by the Bolex factory, except maybe the RX4. You can also still get good quality lenses for these models of Bolex. Remember the old adage, you get what you pay for. An old 16mm camera and lenses that you pick up on ebay for a hundred bucks or so is not going to give you high quality images. The lenses will possibly have mold or fungus, and the mechanism will quite possibly be out of adjustment. If you do pick up one of those cameras, do some film tests before shooting anything you want to keep. Good luck, -Tim Carroll Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch Gross Posted March 22, 2004 Share Posted March 22, 2004 Please, please, please--before you go out spending any money read about the different types of cameras and their functions. You need to educate yourself or you'll be very unhappy. You can read through the archives of this forum and purchase some great beginning filmmaking books as reccomended in the library section of this site and mentioned in various threads in this forum and its archives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Wells Posted March 24, 2004 Share Posted March 24, 2004 For shooting ski stuff and being new to film I would definitely go for Super8. And I would look out for super8 cameras by (in this order) Beaulieu (make sure it is well serviced and decent battery) Nizo Bauer Canon Super8 is probably easied to load film into than any other camera still or motion - and you will be thankful of this when you are kneeling down on the snow in bright sunlight changing the cartridge. For quality images in Super8 try some of the negative film stocks as sold by Pro8mm. Avoid the traditional reversal stocks (Kodachrome 40; Ektachrome 125) as these are very unforgiving to a novice, ESPECIALLY in scens of high contrast - ie. snow. ("reversal" film comes out as a normal projectable positive image when it is processed) As you will have lots of light try the 50ASA Pro8 stock. I have used this in snow and the images were amazingly good. Also as it is negative there is lots to play around with during telecine (converting the film to tape) You could also use the Vision 200T (available from both Kodak and Pro8) with some neutral density - I have just taken delivery of 10 rolls of this for my ski trip to the alpes next week!! Cant wait :) ) A lot of super8 footage seen on TV is often made to look crappy - but infact you will be able to achieve excellent quality images which have a wonderful individual look. Steer clear of Standard 8 (or double 8 as it is often known) as you have to use daylight reels like 16mm and turn them round when it has run half way through - a real fiddle and you might miss a great ski jump! Also only reversal film is available. The great thing about Super8 (and 16mm) is that the formats produce a really high quality bad image - if you can understand that - watch Once upon a time in Mexico (dir Robert Rodriguez) shot digitally - the picture is too good, and too crisp (something that can also be levelled as some 35mm work) This is just my personal taste however. Another excellent source of help with Super8 and 16mm is the forum at: http://www.filmshooting.com/ Have fun Matt Birmingham UK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch Gross Posted March 24, 2004 Share Posted March 24, 2004 If you intend to shoot ski material with the intent to sell it, then I'd say Super-8 is a poor choice. It simply does not have the resolution and is far too grainy to give a satisfactory image. Kodak is planning to release its new 200T and 500T Vision2 stocks on Super-8 within a few months, which should dramatically help reduce this problem, but I would still consider Super-8 as a commercial medium marginal at best. Much better to go 16mm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate Downes Posted March 24, 2004 Share Posted March 24, 2004 For shooting ski stuff and being new to film I would definitely go for Super8. And I would look out for super8 cameras by (in this order) Beaulieu (make sure it is well serviced and decent battery) Nizo Bauer Canon Matt Birmingham UK I'd also recommend Chinon, Elmo and GLX cameras. I've had some very good results with my Vivitar and Bolex Super8's as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKI'N'FILM Posted March 24, 2004 Author Share Posted March 24, 2004 Hey all your info is helping alot!, I'm prolly going to get a super 8 eventually when I find the right deal. As of now I don't think I'll be selling my film so I would like to start out on the super 8 and work my way up in quality in the image. But I had another question, I imagine the same rule applies for the actual film as does it applies for regular b&w photography, that if you expose it to light it will be ruined. And I was reading on the super 8 cameras that you just pop in a cartridge of film and the camera does the rest for loading it? Am i correct? and then your ready to shoot.? Thanks alot -Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate Downes Posted March 24, 2004 Share Posted March 24, 2004 Hey all your info is helping alot!, I'm prolly going to get a super 8 eventually when I find the right deal. As of now I don't think I'll be selling my film so I would like to start out on the super 8 and work my way up in quality in the image. But I had another question, I imagine the same rule applies for the actual film as does it applies for regular b&w photography, that if you expose it to light it will be ruined. And I was reading on the super 8 cameras that you just pop in a cartridge of film and the camera does the rest for loading it? Am i correct? and then your ready to shoot.? Thanks alot -Jason Quite right. Kodak's used magazine carts for cameras for years, with 16mm and 8mm. When they designed Super8, rather than have these carts be an add-on, they designed the Super8 standard with them in mind, a standardized cart. So, the film is in it's own sealed magazine when you get it, and you just slide the magazine into place and away you go. Very nicely done. You then don't have to worry about light hitting your film, getting the film loaded properly, etc. Just "pop n go." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Wells Posted March 24, 2004 Share Posted March 24, 2004 If you intend to shoot ski material with the intent to sell it, then I'd say Super-8 is a poor choice. It simply does not have the resolution and is far too grainy to give a satisfactory image. Kodak is planning to release its new 200T and 500T Vision2 stocks on Super-8 within a few months, which should dramatically help reduce this problem, but I would still consider Super-8 as a commercial medium marginal at best. Much better to go 16mm. I have to disagree to a certain extent with Mitch - If exposed well the level of grain is really much lower than expected, especially with the 50ASA daylight from Pro8 - ideal for snow. I used some last year and was stunned by the quality. The Vision 200T is also excellent - which means the Vision2 200 should be awesome. However I would agree that 16 will always yield a higher resolution, it is just the quality achievable in S8 now means the convenience of the format in terms of small light cameras and ease of loading makes it my choice for quick off the hip work. Matt Birmingham UK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKI'N'FILM Posted March 24, 2004 Author Share Posted March 24, 2004 It all sounds pretty good and not to complicated. Hopefully I can round up some money to get a camera and some film, the camera I was prolly going to get on ebay because there's some good deals. But I was wondering if any of you guys knew if there was a website where I could order the film cartridges for the super 8mm like color, b&w, daytime, and the one that matt wells said would be good for the snow. Thanks -Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Pacini Posted March 25, 2004 Share Posted March 25, 2004 It all sounds pretty good and not to complicated. .... Thanks -Jason Those are words you will live to regret if you do not follow Mitch's advice and thoroughly educate yourself first. There is LOTS to know, and MANY more wrong ways to do things than right ways, and the beginner will almost always instinctively pick the wrongs ones. I'm not trying to sound negative or discourage you, it's just that I've been there myself, and made the mistakes. Read the archives, you will learn much by doing so, and by the way, if you buy Pro8mm stuff, and deal with them, you will be paying as much, and sometimes more, for Super 8 than you will for 16mm elsewhere. I would stick with either Kodachrome 40, or like Mitch said, get some of the newer Kodak stocks (200ASA being the fastest I would bother with in Super 8, if even that). Kodachrome 40 is the cheapest way to go, and it's very fine grained, but contrasty, so it's hard to shoot with, especially being a beginner. Matt Pacini Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Erik Posted March 25, 2004 Share Posted March 25, 2004 Hey, what about a Filmo?? If I were shooting a ski movie, at least for the shots on the slopes, I'd leave my expensive Bolex at home. The military and newsreel reporters used to use them for combat footage, they're built like tanks, and they always run. They're also usually quite a bit cheaper than other models. Although they're cheaper because they're very no frills. You can't (I think) get a magazine for them, so you're stuck with 100 foot rolls, but I believe tobin used to make contstant speed motors for the Filmo. Also, since the viewfinder is parallax, your framing is only about 80% accurate. But if you shoot wide, you're okay. That said, lots and lots of films have had their "crash" footage shot with these cameras. And when you wipe out on that frozen granular holding your EBL, you will be bumming, man. One last thing: they're not very complicated to run. Comparitvely. Anyway, good luck EH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKI'N'FILM Posted March 25, 2004 Author Share Posted March 25, 2004 What I meant by not too complicated was the whole film cartridge going directly into the camera and then the camera doing the rest. I can only imagine the world of $hit i'm going to get into when I actually start filming. There's going to be alot messed up film cartridges laying around. All those buttons, with shutter and F-stop. Now I wish I payed more attention in Photography in highschool. Thanks again guys! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate Downes Posted March 25, 2004 Share Posted March 25, 2004 Although they're cheaper because they're very no frills. You can't (I think) get a magazine for them, so you're stuck with 100 foot rolls, but I believe tobin used to make contstant speed motors for the Filmo. Depends on the model Filmo. The DA allows a 400-foot magazine. Also, B&H made 16mm cameras that used the 50-foot gun camera magazine Kodak made awhile back. (I happen to own one of each of these, I use the 50-foot magazine model to get difficult shots due to the cameras extremely small size and the ease of using the magazine) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Salzmann Posted March 27, 2004 Share Posted March 27, 2004 I think you could probably pick up a Canon Scoopic pretty cheap. These are 16mm cameras that take 100ft loads and have onboard batteries. Loading is a snap and they have sharp lenses and are pretty lightweight. Get a ND.6 filter and shoot away! Filmos are heavy, non-reflex and springwound-not ideal for ski slopes. Also handheld work with the 400ft mags is very difficult if not impossible, especially on skis. with the Scoopic you could eventually improvise some kind of body rig as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate Downes Posted March 27, 2004 Share Posted March 27, 2004 I think you could probably pick up a Canon Scoopic pretty cheap. These are 16mm cameras that take 100ft loads and have onboard batteries. Loading is a snap and they have sharp lenses and are pretty lightweight. Get a ND.6 filter and shoot away! Filmos are heavy, non-reflex and springwound-not ideal for ski slopes. Also handheld work with the 400ft mags is very difficult if not impossible, especially on skis. with the Scoopic you could eventually improvise some kind of body rig as well. The Scoopic's are hard to find tho, that's one issue. And depends on which Filmo. The 50-foot mag models are damned tiny, smaller even than my Hi8 camcorder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch Gross Posted March 28, 2004 Share Posted March 28, 2004 The Scoopic has a fairly lousy lens that is permanently attached to the camera. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now