Projected image split

Dom Pates · October 29, 2015

Hello all,

I'm brand new here. This seems to be the premier place on the 'Net to ask for help from people in the know, so I'm coming to you guys with a problem to see if anyone can help :)

The problem.

All films I successfully project have a horizontal 'split screen' effect that makes it impossible to capture them digitally.

(excuse the poor photo - hopefully it shows the problem well enough)

The background.

I have a bag of mostly Super-8 films inherited from both grandfathers, and am in the process of trying to digitise them. I'm trying to do it myself as a] I'd like to learn how to do it, and b] it's way too expensive to get someone else to. Seems like the best way to achive this is to project the films, then film the projections with a digital camera.

I bought a projector from a local street market a while back to get started (Cinerex Dual 8, Model 707). As far as I can remember, the projector seemed to be working fine when I began using it, with a whole image being projected. After it chewed up parts of a film, I took the front off to remove the damaged film and reassembled it. The next time I tried projecting a film, I got this horizontal 'split screen' issue with the middle and top thirds of a frame being displayed in one part of the projected image and the bottom third of a frame being displayed in the top part of the image.

Initially, I had not put a spring back correctly onto the upper auto film guide. Today, however, I put this back in the right place, but am still having the same problem with the image. Films are (mostly) correctly feeding through onto the take-up reel, but are not displaying correctly. I've tried several of them, all with the same effect. One more film has already been chewed up again today, and I don't want to risk losing any more.

Likely options would be:

Something internally wrong with the projector
I've missed something in reassembling it

Unfortunately, I know next to nothing about Super-8 projector expected operations or repair, so can't be sure if it's either of these or something else.

Anyone here experienced this kind of thing before and fixed it, or have any ideas on what might be going wrong??

Thanks in advance!

Edited October 29, 2015 by Dom Pates

Dave Walker · October 29, 2015

I don't know which projector you're using, but my projector has a knob to turn to correct this. It sometimes needs adjusting when swapping films, as the sprockets don't always line up perfectly with the aperture. Have a look at the projector manual (if you have it) or just look around for a knob or lever you haven't adjusted yet!

Report back if you manage to fix it :o)

Logan Hursh · November 1, 2015

I had a similar problem because the belt was worn and stretched out a bit. I took it to a seal distributor by my house and got a couple o rings that were a little smaller than the worn belt. It fixed my problem and the rings were only 30 cents

Dom Jaeger · November 2, 2015

It seems a shame to be chewing up your grandfathers' films because of a cheap and possibly faulty projector. You should be able to get a decent, reliable one for not too much money if you look around. There are forums devoted to film projection where you will likely get better advice than here, and maybe projector recommendations. There are people who sell serviced or refurbished projectors, maybe film clubs that have some to borrow. Even if a projector doesn't chew up a film, it can cause nasty scatches if it's gummed up or out of whack a bit or just a very cheap model.

Dual gauge projectors are generally not as good as dedicated Standard 8 or Super 8 ones, and you also need to be sure they are set up correctly for the gauge of film you're projecting. Sometimes you need to swap over the gate. A manual would be a very wise thing to locate, and would also easily solve your split screen issue. As an earlier post mentioned, every projector should have a knob or lever that adjusts the frame height so that the film frame is centred with the projector gate aperture. You can often find manuals online for free.

Another option for people with a lot of old family home movies is to buy a film viewer (very cheap on eBay) which has a little sort of TV screen and let's you manually wind the films through and view them. They are much less likely to damage potentially precious footage (or film that has shrunk or become brittle which may not go through a projector properly), and you can go through and select what you want to digitise. You might find only a few films are worth preserving, and if something is really precious you could pay for a professional transfer of that roll only.

Sorry if this is more information than the original question solicited, but to me old family films can be the sort of treasure that future generations might really value, so I can't help but give advice to prevent them from being irreversibly damaged.

Mark Dunn · November 2, 2015

If you can, load the film by hand. It's much less chancy than most autoloads.

Alternatively you can splice longer leaders onto the films- at least 3', preferably more. You will need a tape splicer and white leader, though. If you run a reel of leader, you can see how the projector is running without risking film.

I'd echo the viewer advice, though. You can pick one up for a few pounds on ebay. Search on editor and viewer.

Dom Pates · November 7, 2015

I don't know which projector you're using, but my projector has a knob to turn to correct this. It sometimes needs adjusting when swapping films, as the sprockets don't always line up perfectly with the aperture. Have a look at the projector manual (if you have it) or just look around for a knob or lever you haven't adjusted yet!

Report back if you manage to fix it :o)

Thanks Dave. The projector's a Cinerex Dual 8 - I've discovered from further searches on the model that this particular propjector had a bit of a reputation for just this problem. Unfortunatley none of these searches turned up a solution!

Tried all external options, and there's no knob that will fix it. Will certainly report back when I fix it though.

Mark Dunn · November 8, 2015

THere's always a framing adjustment on a projector. It might be a lever near the gate which just moves the gate mask up and down, rather than a knob which adjusts the claw pivot. If not, you need something better. You can see it clearly here

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Elmo-ST-180-MO-8mm-projector-/331689312902?hash=item4d3a394286:g:65kAAOSwA4dWF7OT

Edited November 8, 2015 by Mark Dunn

Dom Pates · November 10, 2015

I don't know which projector you're using, but my projector has a knob to turn to correct this. It sometimes needs adjusting when swapping films, as the sprockets don't always line up perfectly with the aperture. Have a look at the projector manual (if you have it) or just look around for a knob or lever you haven't adjusted yet!

Report back if you manage to fix it :o)

Thanks Dave - in the end, this is exactly what fixed it! Feel a little daft, of course, but I'd clearly not turned the knob far enough in the right direction. Sometimes, you look for complexity in the solution to a problem, when it's actually simplicity that does it.

Now I can get on with the job of screening and capturing - much appreciated for the pointers!

Dom Pates · November 10, 2015

To Logan, Dom and Mark - thank you all for your contributions in helping a stranger figure out a problem. If you're not already part of a community, it can be quite a jump to head in and ask a question - you all helped me to think forward.

@Logan: Would have looked into the belt drive next, as I had a spare. Luckily, I didn't need to.

@Dom: Thanks for the thoughts. I agree about the value of old family films for future generations - one of the reasons for turning to this forum was not wanting to chew up any more of what I've got. However (particularly as those that might currently see value in these films are all pretty widely distributed, but also for space-saving purposes), I'm more interested in the content of these films than the medium. There is far greater likelihood in anyone in my family being able to watch these films online rather than via a projection at my house. Once they're digitised, that might be another story :)

@Mark: Cheers for the eBay link - sent me back to the projector to revisit the knob that Dave had described.

Now, on with the digitisation process!

Dave Walker · November 11, 2015

Great news - glad to get it sorted out. Good luck with the digitisation & let us know how you get on!

Cheers,

Dave

Dave Walker · November 11, 2015

By the way, the Cinerex has a bad reputation for scratching films...

http://8mmforum.film-tech.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=005172

I'd highly recommend trying to get something a bit kinder to your precious media. Projectors are so cheap these days. I got my Sankyo for free, with a screen included(!)