night for day test

[Ckulakov]

Dear Filmmakers,

 

Earlier I posted about how to creat a daylight scene at night indoors and this is what I got.

 

I created a window inside the house on one of the walls leading to another room and shot a slightly diffused 250 watt photoflood through the blinds. And shot a direct barndoored 500 watt photoflood through a window cut out that appears on the left side of the wall. I white balanced 2900 degrees kelvin. And used 3200 degrees kelvin lamps. This is just a rough test and I will work on lighting the face better. But generally tell me what you think.

 

THANKS

 

THE FAKE DAYLIGHT TEST SHOT

[Ckulakov]

Oh yah I also I shot with a 1/2 black promist to make the window not look so harsh with a hard edge.

 

AND remember that Im not trying to exactly replicate daylight im just trying to hint in a stylized manner that this is a day time shot.

[Tim J Durham]

Oh yah I also I shot with a 1/2 black promist to make the window not look so harsh with a hard edge.

 

AND remember that Im not trying to exactly replicate daylight im just trying to hint in a stylized manner that this is a day time shot.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nice job. It looks like a daylight shot to me. The shadow on the back wall looks exactly like spill from a window. The scene could use some color, though.

[Ckulakov]

What about the light coming through the window?

 

KEEP ON POSTING

[David Mullen ASC]

Well, certainly it won't be mistaken for a night shot.

 

I'm a little bothered by the strong shadow from a light that's obviously not coming from the window in the frame, unless you are going to show another angle with another window in the room.

 

I'd try and find a window that won't be so shadowed by a big bush, fill it more completely (or break it up with something with smaller leaves) and try and create a edge-light on the actor coming from that window direction, then use a softer light on the face maybe a little from below (as of bounce off of the floor) and a little darker than normal to suggest most of the light is coming from behind the actor.

[Ckulakov]

Thank You for the reply

 

I understand what you mean, but what I am trying to do Is show one of the windows in the shot, and have the audiance think that there is another window to the right with direct sunlight and a window pattern showing on the left side.

[J. Lamar King IMPOSTOR]

What David said was exactly what I was thinking. But if you need the light setup like it is you should tune it more. You should have the "window" light from the right coming at a higher angle and brighter. That would tend to lessen the effect of the shadow on the wall. Then knock down the light in the window in the background. Plus make it smoother and even. Try eleminating those bushes. You could then play a subtle bit of edge on the subject with a small unit fixed above the window.

 

Think of it as direct sun is coming from your "window" on the right so the light in the BG must be dimmer less spotty sky-light. As it is now it looks like you have sun coming from two directions.

[Ckulakov]

Lmar King,

 

What do you mean by "knock down the light in the window in the background"? Do you mean lessen the intensity? Also the shadows on the right side shoud not be there or be there?

 

Thanks for you advice

[timHealy]

Hey C,

 

I always find myself agreeing with David.

 

To me the strong shadow has two problems. One is it doesn't look like sunlight and two, it doesn't look like daylight either. It is way too hard for day light coming in through the window, which should be broad and soft. You might want to add a hint of blue if you want.

 

Sunlight on the otherhand should be hard and sharp, but the angle of the light goes unnaturally up and I would add some warm color to it as well. It bugs me that the shadow of his head is higher than his actual head.

 

The window looks a little strange as well. One side is too hot and on the other side it looks as though the bush/tree is right up against the window.

 

I realize you may be a student, an you probably have limited equipment supplies, but if you can try and get away from photofloods and think about using larger, focusable lights and pull them back away from your set. It is one of the most important thinks that will give your work a professional look.

 

Having said all that, these notes are based on the image itself. Within the context of your story, what you have done may be perfectly fine. It depnds on your film.

 

Keep working at it and you'll get it.

 

Best

 

Tim

[J. Lamar King IMPOSTOR]

Lmar King,

 

What do you mean by "knock down the light in the window in the background"? Do you mean lessen the intensity? Also the shadows on the right side shoud not be there or be there?

 

Thanks for you advice

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Yes lessen the intesity. I would personaly get rid of that shadow in the window and smoothly cover the window with the light. It looks much too spotty.

 

Raise your "window" light on the right side to make the shadow of the actor fall down in a more natural way. Also make that light more intense and sharper.

 

Just try working it like that and see how you feel about it.

Edited July 11, 2005 by J. Lamar King

[Ckulakov]

:) Thanks you very much for everyones great advice and criticism.

it means allot.

 

What I will probably do is

 

- Back up the light coming through the window and make it more broad and diffused like daylight( no sunlight)

 

- Put the bush farther from the window and closer to the light.

 

- Make the light coming from the right more "direct" with more crisp shadows to make it look more like sunlight and heighten it up a bit more.

 

- Ad a accent light backlighting the subject.

 

I understand that this needs more polishing. It is just a rough test. I will obviosly ujust it and make the framing composition look more pretty. And like I said "remember that Im not trying to exactly replicate daylight im just trying to hint in a stylized manner that this is a day time shot"

 

I really appreciate your input.

[Francisco Valdez]

I think his shadow on the wall has to much presence in the frame. The size of it suggests he was slightly lit from below, which the sun never does unlees you're high in the sky.

 

To my eyes it truely looks like daylight. I don't think I need to see "the window" on the right to feel it's pressence, the light of the "sun" comming through it is enough evidence that there's a window around there.

[Dominic Case]

One is it doesn't look like sunlight and two, it doesn't look like daylight either. It is way too hard for day light coming in through the window, which should be broad and soft. You might want to add a hint of blue if you want.

Remember that the sky is blue and the sun is yellow. I think you need a bit of blue filtering to light the window that is in shot, in comparison to the key light.

 

Then you need to consider the sidelight that is casting the shadow on the wall. The hard shadow suggests it is meant to be sunlight (maybe diffused sunlight). If so, it needs to be yellower. As it so high on the wall, the sun must be low, so it would be almost orange. If it's just skylight from a brighter window (ie no trees outside like the back window) then the shadow needs to be MUCH more diffused.

 

"remember that Im not trying to exactly replicate daylight

But the viewer always wants to "read" the shot. If it's neither one thing nor the other, you haven't sold the shot - in fact you've drawn attention to it being nothing more than a studio set-up..

[Bob Hayes]

I think it was really clever of you to create a window inside the house by putting blinds on a door way. Good job!

[Ckulakov]

Thanks You

 

Here is the improved night for day test.

 

 

What do you think

[Ckulakov]

I should of turned of the the practical lamp though.

[J. Lamar King IMPOSTOR]

Wow! Congrats, that looks much better. Good job!

 

How do you feel about it? Does it seems more logical now?

[Chris Keth]

Your improved shot still doesn't quite do daytime for me. It looks like evening. I think it would sell if you turned off the practical and opened up a little bit.

 

The reason I say this, since logic behind it is everything when you're learning (I still am, by the way), is that the practical is fairly bright in the scene and is also very warm. The warmth makes the window look bluer in comparison, hence evening. It also makes a hotspot on the wall that is brighter than the blinds...which are supposed to be lit by the sun that should dwarf that little lamp. I say open up a little just because it just doesn't look bright enough to me to be daytime.

Edited July 12, 2005 by Christopher D. Keth

[J. Lamar King IMPOSTOR]

The fundementals in the second shot are much better than the first. You now have a solid and logical base from which to work. I encourage you to explore the lighting by changing the intesity and quality of all your lights to see how it affects the mood and look of the scene.

[Chris Keth]

The fundementals in the second shot are much better than the first.  You now have a solid and logical base from which to work.  I encourage you to explore the lighting by changing the intesity and quality of all your lights to see how it affects the mood and look of the scene.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Absolutely. I would buy it as sometime during the day, like I said before, I would guess evening or early morning. Some little changes and that basic setup could pass for any time of day.

[David Mullen ASC]

If you turn off the practical and brighten the window a little more, it would look more like day. What would be a nice touch is to get an edgelight / kicker on the face coming from the window direction, just off camera right.

[Ckulakov]

NIGHT FOR DAY UPDATE

 

Thanks for your advice

 

 

 

What do think about this.

 

 

Thanks

[Tim J Durham]

NIGHT FOR DAY UPDATE

 

Thanks for your advice

 

What do think about this.

Thanks

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I think you're right on track. And inspite of what others said about the angle of the shadow on the back wall, when I first saw it I was immediately reminded of the way the sun reflects off the hood/windshield of my car in the driveway and casts the same shadow on my dining room wall.

And when thought of that way, it is logical to have sun coming from two directions and people will subconsciously recognize it that way.

 

Adding color to the scene has improved it immensely. Now just add some bird and traffic noise to the soundtrack and you're off to the races.

[Ckulakov]

Please keep posting your opinions.

 

What do you think of this update.

[Bob Hayes]

One thing that would make your night for day more real is a small splash of very bight daylight hitting the bed or his shoulder. Buy this I mean real daylight doesn?t always behave the way you want it to. Sometimes despite all your efforts a very hot spill of light will come though the window and hit the bed or an actors shoulder. Often the DP will try to fix that spill because it doesn?t look ?perfect?. When I?m faking day I try to create those mistakes. Brian J. Reynolds currently shooting ?The Closer?is the king of this technique. He used bent up pieces of stainless steel to create bizarre reflections that could only be created by real sun hitting real objects.