Richard Vialet Posted October 7, 2005 Share Posted October 7, 2005 I don't know if im gonna sound like a real doofus for asking this... But I've been having much debate with people about the average latidude of the recent color negative motion picture film stocks. So I'm asking anyone to confidently tell me: how many stops of underexposure will get me true black, and how many stops of overexposure will get me true white? I'm referring to the Kodak Vision and Vision2 stocks and the new Fuji stocks...but also is there a big difference in latitude when comparing the Vision stuff and the Fuji stuff (i know Fuji is supposedly softer and less contrasty, but does that mean it has more latitude) And also by the way, does anyone know of a link where I can get info on the upcoming Vision2 50D stock? I apologize for the rack of questions... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member John Pytlak RIP Posted October 7, 2005 Premium Member Share Posted October 7, 2005 I don't know if im gonna sound like a real doofus for asking this... But I've been having much debate with people about the average latidude of the recent color negative motion picture film stocks. So I'm asking anyone to confidently tell me: how many stops of underexposure will get me true black, and how many stops of overexposure will get me true white? I'm referring to the Kodak Vision and Vision2 stocks and the new Fuji stocks...but also is there a big difference in latitude when comparing the Vision stuff and the Fuji stuff (i know Fuji is supposedly softer and less contrasty, but does that mean it has more latitude) And also by the way, does anyone know of a link where I can get info on the upcoming Vision2 50D stock? I apologize for the rack of questions... Kodak publishes the sensitometric data for each of its motion picture products. It's in the technical data for each film: http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/products...0.1.4.4.4&lc=en "Latitude" is usually calculated from the length of the straight-line portion of a color negative's sensitometric curve, although useful scene information is still captured on the "toe" and "shoulder" portions of the film's characteristic. For example: A low contrast film does not necessarily have more latitude. The Kodak VISION2 color negative films have been praised for their superior latitude and excellent contrast match, giving a very good neutral scale from deepest shadow to brightest highlight. The VISION2 films also feature excellent reproduction of flesh tones and very natural color reproduction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Hughes Posted October 7, 2005 Share Posted October 7, 2005 John, my question is slightly off-topic for negative film. I saw an E64T test on the filmshooting forum by Ugo in Italy: http://www.filmshooting.com/scripts/forum/...pic.php?t=11499 His exposure tests were remarkable; when overexposed the E64T seemed to not blow out to clear white, but "compressed" the highlights. Even at 2.5 stops above standard exposure the highlights were apparent. Could you comment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member John Pytlak RIP Posted October 7, 2005 Premium Member Share Posted October 7, 2005 John, my question is slightly off-topic for negative film. I saw an E64T test on the filmshooting forum by Ugo in Italy: http://www.filmshooting.com/scripts/forum/...pic.php?t=11499 His exposure tests were remarkable; when overexposed the E64T seemed to not blow out to clear white, but "compressed" the highlights. Even at 2.5 stops above standard exposure the highlights were apparent. Could you comment? It's all determined by the "curve shape" of the sensitometric curve. E64T has a very good "toe" characteristic, where the highlights reside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Stephen Williams Posted October 7, 2005 Premium Member Share Posted October 7, 2005 I don't know if im gonna sound like a real doofus for asking this... But I've been having much debate with people about the average latidude of the recent color negative motion picture film stocks. So I'm asking anyone to confidently tell me: how many stops of underexposure will get me true black, and how many stops of overexposure will get me true white? I'm referring to the Kodak Vision and Vision2 stocks and the new Fuji stocks...but also is there a big difference in latitude when comparing the Vision stuff and the Fuji stuff (i know Fuji is supposedly softer and less contrasty, but does that mean it has more latitude) And also by the way, does anyone know of a link where I can get info on the upcoming Vision2 50D stock? I apologize for the rack of questions... Hi, How many stops of under or exposure you will get away with depends on the contrast ratio of the scene. If the Darkest to lightest is say 5 stops, then over or underexposure by 2.5 stops will give an acceptable result. If the Range is 11 stops then you would have very little room to play. Stephen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member David Mullen ASC Posted October 7, 2005 Premium Member Share Posted October 7, 2005 It also depends on the print stock used, the printer lights used based on overall density, etc. And even lab chemistry may have an effect -- some labs do more "contrasty" work than others. There will never be an accurate, specific answer to that question, that you still have detail at "x" stops under but none one stop under that. Negative is one part of a process that gives us a positive image, so you can't really just separate it from the system and only look at the negative if you're talking about blacks and whites in the final image. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Tim J Durham Posted October 7, 2005 Premium Member Share Posted October 7, 2005 It's all determined by the "curve shape" of the sensitometric curve. E64T has a very good "toe" characteristic, where the highlights reside. John, I thought you film guys called shadow areas the "toe"? And the highlights were the "shoulder"? In video it's "toe" and "knee" which I guess leaves only the shin-bone for all the mid ranges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Laurent Andrieux Posted October 7, 2005 Premium Member Share Posted October 7, 2005 You're thinking of negative film... E64T is a reversal film, so that the toe is where the highlights reside... One should noticethat a 2.5 stops latitude is not that impressive for negative film. It is much more impressive for what's about reversal, by the way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Adam Frisch FSF Posted October 7, 2005 Premium Member Share Posted October 7, 2005 There is no way to say. Will a man in a white T-shirt be discernible after 5 stops underexposure? Probably. What if he had a black one on? Or a lavender one? It's also how you measure the light - incident or spot on the shirt? And so on. It's simply impossible to tell as a general rule that would fit all. But 3 over and 3 under is normally considered a good playing field for going from the barely visible to the almost blown out. But discernible is probably a lot more. Then, one has to define discernible... :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Laurent Andrieux Posted October 7, 2005 Premium Member Share Posted October 7, 2005 Exactly ! and the landscape you see through a window in the frame, for instance, has to be overexposed, in'it ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Vialet Posted October 8, 2005 Author Share Posted October 8, 2005 Thank you everyone for the replies and the conversations based on the topic, it's helped me out a lot!!!! Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now