Michael Peploe

Sorry Notradamus I forgot you know me and the easiest way is to dismiss someone is by calling them angry. Isn't that how they labeled Mcain. How they labeled him the first go round and it worked. Now he's not so angry. Stop being a baby Walter. Look in your magic mirror honestly Walter it isn't anger but truth. And sometimes it hurts. The sad part is people who could have gotten the straight scoop from Jannard or Nattress now can't because of all this verbal garbage. I know Jannard is reading these and hope he enters the fray again someday so this board can be a place of true discussion not fantasy.

Oh please walter don't throw this back at me with that Toltec shaman modern interpretation self help nonsense. They were the ones that believed in live sacrifices to brightly colored birds right?. Be a man, stop listening to Peter Coyote and admit you wrote all these posts regarding RED to sway opinion which flies in the face of the 'four agreements'. Those posts were not meant to elucidate or inform. I got a suggestion. Instead of heresay like we get from Phil "this is what i saw at the video show" Rhodes or Walter "hey this where I believe Red messed up" Graff or Thomas "hey these are images I got off someone on the web but know nothing about how it was shot but it definitely proves Red images stink but I'll leave it up to you to judge" Worth, why don't you all get your hands dirty and do your own tests. I did and the RED is a wonderful camera that has more than enough resolution for any medium. The only difference is I'm not here to prove it to anyone like the rest of you. I do my own tests and leave it up to the rest of you to do your own. Thats where the truth is. You'd be surprised how generous some RED owners will be to let you have free time with the cam. F**k the fanboys and F**k the naysayers who get heir info second hand.

Walter you're the type that likes to hear himself talk. And one who thinks his opinion matters. Do us a favor and shut the f**k up. Yeah i said it. I haven't been a red fan boy at all but your stupid analysis is by far the most ridiculous I've ever read regarding the camera. Even worse than Phils obession with its not a 4K camera rant. What are you Nostradamus for the digtal video world. The fact remains that the camera is released when some said it wouldn't. The fact remains that it shoot great images.Proven. The fact remains that its very affordable for the kind of cam it is. The fact remains that Jannard has promised all ouputs by middle of March not years from now..People are using it now with great results. What else are these cams supposed to do for you? Do me a favor an put your analysis where it belongs: in the garbage.

Thanks Ralph. Very helpful. I know there are a very few cams out there so these questions may be a bit premature. It wold be nice to hear more speculation or real world experience on this, especially in a low end environment for basic rough cut, color correct, etc. I've seen pics and I've scene moving shots. I've seen color correction and debates about chip resolution. But I have yet to see a small edited sequence with basic elements used for offline with workflow and tiranscode time details because I feel its the other part of this supposed revolution. And I think just as important as resolution for the independant filmmaker without the Hollywood bank account.

Would love to hear anyone's offline workflow for those of us with basic home tools. Specifically: 4k to 1080p conversion (transcode times,basic color correction , what computer horsepower is necessary) are 1k and 2k, .5K proxies editiable say in FCP able to handle basic color correction then onlined at a pro house from the original 4k. Can proxies be deliverables if 4k isn't necessary? What timeline are you editing those proxies in for best quality?

Phil I've always enjoyed your posts but this one strikes me as a bit off. Its really hard for me to go to reduser too and read another "holy crap" response, which I think runs now into the millions, every time a pic is posted, but to totally disavow any attempt to use the cam for yourself and therefore judge the image for yourself because it has left a bad taste in your mouth seems wrongheaded. Why not prove or disprove the hype and bull if it exists and if it doesn't well then you have a new tool at your disposal. At the end of the day its just a better or worse hammer. I don't see how asking for chip specs helps you when the image should be the focus. The hype and synchophants have left a bad taste in my mouth too but why let those things shut the door on a possibly better tool. Anyway since Mr. Nattress is here could he give us a quick step by step rundown on how best to deal with the Raw footage for a basic non effects shoot once loaded in saving some time from the mistakes we will make so we can scrutinize better footage instead of mismanged ones.

Was I talking to you? No. So your enthusiasim makes you lump yourself into posts not directed towards you. Slow down get a job or hobby because you're way to high strung for this frivolity.

And do you defend this forum when almost everyone looking to start something on Reduser uses this forum as a punching bag. No you don't. Afraid you might be ostracized. Stay over there then have a blast and save us from your sensitive feelings.

Oh man how many times is that going to thrown out. You seriousely think that sony never asks this question to people that can answer it . Yes they do, maybe they don't post on forums just to hear that someone would like a laser beam focus or some other crap they have to weed through to get the real needs of professional camera people who by the way have used their equipment for many years, maybe even you, maybe George Lucas and on and on. Sony is a public company that puts thousands of people to work. Red is a private comapny with a dozen people. Come up with something original to say and please stop parroting. I also noticed people who donated money to a testing group of the Red. Let me get this straight. People who have over $25k -$ 50k to spend on a cam and volunteered to go to LA to help in some testing, of their own free will mind you, because they obviousely can afford it need to have a collection taken up for food as if they were some shanghied coolies that had a gun to their head forced to to test the cams because my god they are so impoverished and needy. Priorities are all wacked out. I can think of millions of people that need food more than that testing group. And even though they might already give to those millions too (i doubt it) they could still use the RED food money because those testers certainly don't. A testament to reduser priorities and fanatasisim.

Oh please Gavin. the one or two posts like yours questioning the footage are so few and far between. I saw the footage projected and disagree with you. i thought the footage looked great. And if you've read some threads on Reduser, bizarre would be a mild description. I read and shake my head at the fanatisism. Theres a guy on there that posted he spent 70 grand on a cam and says he knows nothing of filmmaking and has never shot anything. thats beyond bizzare. And everyone cheers him on. This is insane and a testament to how great a job Jannard has done getting the word out when he has not released one piece of motion footage in its original form that can be scrutinized. And when he did release 20 seonds of lower quality footage people found a rolling shutter problem. Anything else? No one knows. This is a simple fight between dreamers and realists. The dreamers are fed because everything they're told is what they want to hear and the realists await proof. This thread is proof that even Sodenberg who's seen the workflow and the quality of images got caught up in the REd frenzy and came upon a limitation he didn't expect. Yes i know they were prototypes but still no one seriousely questioned it when you're making a film about a guerilla fighter intp the jungle. The jungle Gavin. Now what limitations will there be in the varied world of post? Maybe sometihg will crop up there? No one knows. Here we would like to know, there you are all happy campers and will find out only on the day you recieve your camera. Thats all.

And after reading the excessive fawning that goes on at REduser I'd say you have no tolerance for the slightest bit of dissent when its necessary. I'd rather be here than there when the cam comes out. No doubt. Glad you stoped by just to bitch and moan. Fairyland awaits.

Excatly. The shipping cams will have the Peltier cooling system the ones they are shooting with do not. If they wanted to go shoot with these handmade protos they have to take the good with the bad. I have a feeling RED is going to make really sure this never happens again.

Then how would you explain your devotion to a piece of metal with a brain totally based on faith?

I think I understand religious fantatics more clearly now. Truth is meaningless. Conversion is all.

Jim please I have gotten no indication of badgering. I just don't see it. You're using the board like some extended brochure for your camera minus relevant details anyone brings up. Maybe you're getting too comfortable over at REduser where you can do no wrong. If I'm siiting in the office of someone trying to sell me on something and they throw out some jpeg pics of how great their camera is 7 stops under the next question I'm sure even you would ask is what Werner did. You've got to appreciate it for the smart business sense Werner would have right? I have a feeling you might be worried about what thousands of tech savvy people (some I'm sure who want you to fail) who would run your footage through the digital meatgrinder bringing up every questionable detail real or imagined before the cam hits the street. And then you'd have to take the time to find out how they did their testing and then you'd have to tell them how they messed up and on and on. I saw the Jackson film projected at a FCP event and it looked great. Some issues but very minor. I know you have advanced from that prototype I personally want you to succeed.I am excited on the light performance of the chip. I really am, but every time someone asks for a little more detail you get defensive and declare you're leaving this board. I do not want to see that happen because I believe that this board will be more professionally honest both critical and laudatory regarding your camera as opposed to the board you most frequent . Its not cynicism. I would like a real dialogue to go on here and hope you do to.

QUOTE(Werner Klipsch @ Jul 14 2007, 07:44 PM) You guess? We have to trust? I don't. Why do you not simply take say a 1K-wide chunk of your "4K" file, of the critical area in question, post that not shrunk. That would remove any doubt would it not? Werner... sorry you feel that way. Jim Ahh and here we go again. A good request evaded like a politician. Answer but with no real answer.

This may change the sensor game. http://www.imaging-resource.com/NEWS/1181811769.html

Someone on that forum says the RED is using a global shutter. I have not heard of anyone from RED confirming this. Isn't the RED a cmos rolling shutter?

The last thing I would want is for you to leave again. I used proper punctuation didn't I (?). I can also infer whatever I wish when the only facts are the pieces you decide to throw out. Its a half effort open process when it comes to the scrutinizing of actual footage and how you got it and I can only guess then what the rest of the truth is. With a little prodding regarding a pro cinematographers/directors use of RED you explained the situation in the making of the short more fully here than anywhere else and I believe you. I was working on a pilot recently that was shot with the Genisis by a major film DP and the AC , a good friend of mine and one of the top AC's around and who really loves the Genisis and doesn't want to shoot film anymore, we started to talk about the RED and he told me he heard the chip you used for the NAB footage was taken out of some other camera. Know I defended the RED because I felt that was way out there gossip. Thats what the street is like and until you lay it all out there thats whats going to happen. So stick around bask in the accolades that might come when you release the cam.

Just to be clear.It is my understanding that you executive produced that short. I have a feeling you financed it then? It wasn't Jacksons choice or his dp's choice to use the camera it was something you bought with the included condition being that they use the RED proto right?

Here we go again. These RED threads go in circles don't they. I must agree that with all this open process we keep hearing about there is still a reluctance to show more footage and quality stills even though the camera is still being tweaked. Aside from the dynamic range and other limitations of video cameras the reason RED will always get all this attention is because of two factors. Cost and workflow. The thought of getting high quality video images, being able to edit on a laptop, on a variety of storage solutions for a very affordable price and not its competition with film is the reason for the candlelit vigil outside the hospital waiting room you are currently seeing.

Do a search for articles on the making of Ali. They used 2 tiny eymo video cameras mounted inches apart and then stiched the images together along with some post work to match film. Mann also wanted not to be thethered so they came up with a wireless image transfer. Search the net you'll find info on all this. Also check out the eymo site and B&H for the eymo parts.

I just did a shoot for a mobile device with a big star and they aslo did a photo shoot at the same time. Talking with the photographers assistant he told me that a study was done where they showed digital images and film images to a group of people off the street asking them to pick which ones they liked without telling them which ones were digital or film. Almost all of the group picked the film shots as the ones they liked. Advertising companies will take any advantage they can get to get their products noticed and thats one of the reasons film is still being asked for.

Great post Fran. So true. Mr. Jannard has stated, I'm sure subject to change, that there will be a sensor upgrade possibly every 2 years and firmware is user upgradeable. Unlike other digital devices he has made sure that obsolesence will not be an issue and in fact is used in their marketing. Seems he knows what gripes most of us have.

. Trust me. Scouting locations recently. Its film