Greg Gross

Well I've just learned one lesson about why I might consider using a zoom lens. Greg Gross

Gentlemen, When you told me that Conrad Hall was operating the camera on East of Eden, you really made my day. Not just that alone but that he was operating the cam- era for Ted McCord. My god this film alone is a virtual film school if you pay att- ention to each scene. I'm not a film school graduate so I naturally thought that it was shot at 50,80,100 ASA. My god its no wonder Mr. Hall learned to light so well. The framing in this film(close-ups) where you have two characters in dia- logue was just awesome. Did I see some of this framing in "Road to Perdition"? I believe that Mr. Hall has just taught me in a 1955 film,how to use a camera. Greg Gross

I spent quite some time today reading chapters from "Reflections". I was particularly absorbed with comments by Owen Roizman ASC,John C. Hora ASC,Jeff Cronenweth ASC. Subjects ranged from how to create a smoke beam,what focal length for people in advertising,art of building light,practical advice on not overlighting. One of the cine- matographers said that he did not want to be seen using a zoom(a man after my own heart). Although he would skip creative framing with a prime and use a zoom if the sp- eed of work called for it. I rarely use a zoom in still photography unless the distance of a subject(un-practical) from the camera is a problem. Of course framing subject with a handheld camera has never been a problem for me,while using a prime lens. Now when you look at the collected films that these gentlemen have shot,you'll just be blown away. You'll have no problem understanding that they know what they are talking about. I envy David Mullen ASC as I'm sure he gets to mingle with these gentlemen at times. This spring I will begin shooting a film for the first time on super 16mm. I have produced,written the sc- ript,will co-direct with my girlfriend,will photograph production. I'm using primes for the most part and have written in to the script a lot of close-ups with two characters in dialogue. I do not see a need for a zoom in the rental box. Do I have tunnel vision? Should I have a zoom in the rental box anyway? Would anybody care to comment on speed of working with prime lens Vs. zoom? Anybody want to share any experiences concerning this issue? I believe in taking the camera to the subject,and I know that at times this is not possible to do. Greg Gross

I mentioned it earlier in a post tonight that I was so impressed with the camera work done on "East of Eden". The framing just impressed me so much and the great close-ups with say two actors in dialogue. Maybe this was an Elia Kazan trade-mark, I haven't studied his work enough to know. Greg Gross

I try to view at least one good film every week,last night it was "East of Eden". I don't know who the camera operator was for this film but he certainly left a legacy for stu- dents of film. The use of the camera,framing,coverage was just simply the best I've ever seen. I don't know what stocks were used but film look to was most impressive. I suppose they used 100 ASA or less. I was reminded of the legacy of James Dean,I think it was three major films,yet he lives on today on celluloid,still has impressive fan presence. Of course it was directed by Elia Kazan who certainly has left a film legacy for us. Greg Gross

Laurent A., You never told us you were on"Highlander" ! My hats off to you! I just looked at your filmology. May I ask you a question? I'm studying Truffaut now, reading two books about his filmmaking? Can you tell me if Fanny Ardant the actress, is she still living,still acting? Greg Gross Student Cinematographer

Well Stephen, You do have the choice to try to work it out. Do you think she may be intimidated by you. In other words,she doesn't know what she is doing(in some areas) so she takes charge and insists on her method. Suppose I was doing one of my independent film productions and had a big enough budget to hire David Mullen ASC. I have a scene in one of my scripts where a girl comes down the steps through double doors and out on a brightly sunlit street(Vision 200T will do it) but 500T inside. She leaps into the arms of her boyfriend. Now where they are standing, they have street vendors with brightly colored flowers for sale,on each side of them. I want to make strong use of color in this scene, vibrant!! I have never shot any film footage like this before. You better believe I'm going to listen to Mr. Mullen about how to shoot this due to his craft and art. Well isn't this the way a director and a cinematographer are supposed to work together? Keep in mind now I want to use sunlight for this scene. The kind of light we see past that of noon- time. I guess if one doesn't like a certain director they have the option of quitting. Pay att- ention now, I have a friend who directs for tv and he is fairly famous, you would recognize him. Anyway he's arrogant as hell about my script writing,cuts me to the bone,intimidates the hell out of me,I mean no story is ever good enough. On the other hand when he's gets cocky with me, I can hand him one of my back-up Canon 20d's, and I'll say here take a shot of me, make a 3/4 pose(head&shoulders) and use the window light here for your key. To which he'll reply now you know Greg,I don't know anything about photography. He'll do every- thing but drop the camera trying to make the shot! Now for us we would actually have a great working relationship,filmmaking. Of course we do not work together,just friends. My first real shoot with a full crew was a dv feature to dvd(not shot for film) and we used two DVX-100A's with cinema packages. Naturally I was concerned about using anamorphic lens VS. no anamor- ic lens due focus issues and the speed of working. I was really thinking of shooting it 4:3 and then going 16:9 in post. Well my director was a woman(in-experienced) real pretty when she got mad. She had a poop fit,I had to use an anamorphic lens because somebody told her that was the way to do it. Well I was sweating,I did not want to look weak in front of this babe. I had read posts on forum here and one Post by Mr. Mullen said it was one way to do it. Well I knew I could trust David's advice as I knew his filmology. We were on location at the ocean in Delaware and I told her I was done,I was quitting. I had already called the production house in NYC and they told me I was right to shoot in 4:3 and go 16:9 in post. So I went back to my hotel and was packing to leave and the producer called me from Philadelphia and told me that he really wanted me to stay on. Turns out the director had called the production house in NYC and they told her the same thing to shoot 4:3 and go 16:9 in post. So when we finished shooting the production the producer told me that she told him, we got along really well together and that she would like to shoot another production with me. We are going to but shooting schedule is pen- ding at this time. Now is that a woman for you? Or a director for you? I received storyboards with a card that was perfumed! I'm going to start running,I want a working relationship not romantic. To top it all off,she speaks french(from Canada). I'm already in love with a beautiful woman. Has anybody else here on forum ever run in to anything like this? I really just do not feel good about it at all. I really am going to beg off,excuse is my schedule is not free,I'm tied up. Greg Gross

Why don't you rent a DVX-100A and try it out for a day? Also if you have a Panasonic dealer near where you live,they may let you shoot with a demo for several hours. I have a large vid- eo supply house only about five blocks from my home/studio and they left me shoot with a DVX- 100 when they first came out. Trouble is I can buy all my video equipment(not gray market) from B&H Photo,cheaper than I can from the Panasonic Dealer. Greg Gross

No sir I am not a director,I'm a photographer. Its doesn't matter if I'm doing stills or motion I'm still a photographer. Pay attention to what Mr. Mullen has said in his post. The producer and the director have decided upon the look,action the film will take on. They have decided how to tell the story,it is not the crew's job,actor's job to change the way the story will be told or look. Of course Mr. Pollock may say to Mr. Penn,okay lets try it your way, Mr. Eastwood may say to Mr. Bacon,maybe we should try it your way. But look at the creative people you are dealing with here! In my previous post I apolo- gize if anyone thought I was knocking directors. I was not doing so, I was trying to stim- ulate the thought process about this subject. Mr. Mullen posted and made some sense out of the chaos. I have chosen the independent production route for myself and so I have to market what I produce. So I do have to be the producer,director,photograhper, I have a gaffer and soundman to work with. I have nothing against directors or directing and I hope I can find a good director to work with. I would much rather photograph and also operate at times then I would direct. It would give me great pleasure to operate the camera and achieve the action,tell the story,give the coverage that Mr. Pollock desires. I have a tremendous sense of humor and I thank god that I do. I think I once said on the forum that if some assisitant crazy director ever treated one of my crew badly, it would sort of be like batman-Wham...Bam...Punch ...sock...crunch...ouch! Of course that would be the end of my filmmaking. Now on the other hand the same director can treat me badly all he wants, I can take it! Greg Gross

Hal, Have you seen anybody try to use "creative' white balance technique with the theatrical lighting? Greg Gross

I can give you a reputable source that I have been dealing with for many years,have never had a problem. They are pretty good also with trade-ins if you have a trade-in to bargain with. B&H Photo 420 Ninth Ave. New York,NY 10001 1-800-947-1175(video dept.) Greg Gross

Hello 22 West, Study up on the latitude of film. Also if you go from f16 to f32 know how amount of light is effected,thus from f32 to f16 how amount of light is effected. You should know how to take a proper incident light reading and a proper reflected light reading. With the light set up you were using, how far would you have to move the lights back,to have the light at only 1/2 the intsensity? If all your 200 ASA got lost at the airport and you only had 500T to work with, could you stop your lens up(higher number)? Could you decrease the inten- sity of your lights? Could you use an ND filter? Just some things to think about,I don't know what level you are at with photographic skills. I'm not trying to intimidate you, not trying to be a smart ass. All of these things are basic photographic skills that you will appreciate if you practice them. Could you scrim your lights appropriately? You'll find that when you start to sh- oot you will become almost a constant problem solver. If a director wants a certain look,effect, sure its real easy to say he's crazy but than again its something else to achieve what he wants. Every cinematographer I personally know was a photographer first,some used 4X5,8X10 cam- eras,some shot with 35mm and medium format cameras. Now I'm speaking of course about pe- ople in my circles. I personally would wait until you are a little more experienced to use the spot- meter. If I can be any help to you with your photography you may e-mail me,my e-mail address is in my forum profile. I'd be more than pleased to help you with photographic principles,I like to teach and I have High School interns come to my studio every year. I am striving also to become a cinematographer and my aspirations lie within doing my own independent films. So I really have to learn to produce,direct and act. Good luck with your studies,you know you really do ask sensible, practical questions. Its perfectly ok to doubt yourself and you will get used to that feeling but as time goes by you'll become proficient and professionally skilled. Don't forget the Kodak web site for study- ing film as it is an excellent source. What would be the outcome of using a faster film VS a slower film? Greg Gross

Yes Mr. Mullen your point is well taken sir and of course correct. I was hoping someone would pick up the ball and run with it. I also think of the director as being responsible to the producer for the production. Greg Gross

Why do we even have directors? Could we let the actors act and direct themselves? Truffaut once said(not his exact words) that the director is the man who answers all the questions. Sydney Pollock is my favorite director but then I perceive him as a fil- mmaker. Greg Gross

I was going to mention last night that you have to learn to work fast. You simply cannot haggle over one meter reading for half of your shooting time. You should be able to rec- ognize your lighting set-up the next time you see it,thus you will know what f/t stop to use. Now, do not forget your ASA! Suppose you are using the same light set-up but all of your ASA 200 film got lost and your lightmeter was dropped and is broken. The only film you have available is 500T,what f/t stop would you shoot at? Greg Gross

I wonder if he says "CUT" or just "STOP" like I do? Greg Gross

Hello 22 West, Your user name sounds like the title of a film,"22 West". As soon as I saw it I started thinking about writing a story with that title. It reminds me of a Michael Douglas film, you know like he goes to "22 West" as a detective to interview the beautiful woman, whose husband recently has become deceased. For practical purposes I'm assuming that you are shooting at 24fps and that the shutter angle is probably 170 to 200 degrees. Your shutter speed would be approx. 1/50 sec.. I use a Spectra 4A and I'm assuming you have entered info. into your meter. You will base your fstop on info. above. Now I am also assuming your meter is operating normally and has been cal- ibrated less than 100 years ago. Incident light is the light that illuminates your subject. Reflected light is the light reflected off of your subject. Both types of light are different and can produce diff- erent values on your meter. So your mission if you wish to accept it Mr. Phelps,is to determine the correct fstop for a proper exposure. To measure the light at your subject,place the meter at your subject(you chose the lighted side of the face) with the meter(dome) facing the camera. You could say that the dome is representing the face of your subject in minature. Now here is an important as- pect,when at the subject the meter is reading the key light,fill light,back light,hair light,fire exit light, directors's light. While I'm thinking about it,never...never...never let the director take a light reading. So in otherwords under most circumstances the meter is reading,taking into consideration all of this lighting. However there can be exceptions. So you should get an accurate fstop from your meter. When film is exposed it takes on values of reflectance which are determined by the light intensity of your subject. All of these reflectances from your subject will place themselves into a certain range on your film. The face of your subject will fall into a certain reflectance range on your film. You want to maintain this range from scene to scene,so that you have cosistant tonal range of your subject's face. If you are going to have light changing in a scene you can have a stand-in run through the scene, so that if you hold the meter at the face(pointed at the camera),this will help you to identify un-even light- ing,hot areas. You then could determine how to balance the light. It doesn't sound to me like you have changing light with the scene you are speaking of. It would also be possible to achieve an average ex- posure value by using a spotmeter(CORRECTLY!!!!!). I believe you said f11 was determined by your meter at 200 ASA. It should be accurate providing there are no extraneous problems. Normally out- doors you probably would not have a wide range of light intensities but then again there are always ex- ceptions. Your subject being back-lit or front-lit can present exposure problems per your desired look. The background being lit VS dark can cause a problem. Now I'm really going to confuse you- if the light at the subject is the same as the light at the camera, you can hold your meter at the camera and point it at the subject. A very useful tidbit for obvious reasons. You do not have to take the meter to the sub- ject. If the same light is falling on your skin that is falling on the subject's skin,you can measure your own skin for a proper exposure. Now obviously we know there are some exceptions here but if you can- not get the meter to the subject it may give you a workable exposure. If you are outside working with sunshine and mixed shade(mixing both) and your subjects are in the shade,look at the meter reading you are getting in the shade, open 1/2 to 1 stop. If you are working where you have haze you may need to use a haze filter. Remember to use gray card if you are going to utilize meter to do reflected readings. Hope this will be of help to you. If you get a chance try to view the film "Gia". There's a scene where Ang- elina Jollie is on a bed with another woman(actress)and they are in shadows. The woman gets off the bed and walks to an area of more intense light,she sits down on the floor with her hands on her knees,she's leaning against the frame of a doorway and is pretty intensely lit. She is evenly lit with this light. Angelina gets off the bed and on to the floor on her hands and knees. So we see her move on her hands and knees from the shadows into increasingly more and more light until she reaches the girl intensely lit. Now remem- ber at first as she moved from the shadows her face was only lit a little but then increased more and more until she got to the girl in the intense light. Pay particular attention to the skin tones on Angelina's face, if you are able to get the film and view it. This one scene opened my eyes to the art,craft of cinematography. Greg Gross

Brian, I will review for you if you wish. I have a friend who was a writer for "Tool Time" and also he's a director. If want to send dvd,I'll get him to view it with me. Would send dvd back to you. Greg Gross Film 7 Photography P.O. Box 5057 Harrisburg,PA 17110 Greg Gross

Point well taken gentlemen and thank you for your posts. I was considering possibility of forum getting some sponsorship for costs. I would not object myself to an entry fee. I know this issue would become highly debatable though. Of course you are right about a multitude of film festivals on the filmmaking scene. Abundant weak! stories. Greg Gross

Of course my friend if you think you have what it takes. Why don't you just try it? I mean actually "just do it." If you fall down,pick yourself up and quit or carry on. You're never going to be a DP unless you start doing some kind of filmmaking on a professional basis. Or go the independent route,make you own films and market them. At 58 years old I'm trying to be kind to you! But you must understand if this is what you want(really want) then just go do it! Sooner or later if you keep it up,you will be at the right place at the right time,at least once! Look at it this way,even if you don't make it big time,you'll get a lot of satisfaction doing what you like to do;I presume? Here's a tip from a long time stills photographer and ex-army ranger-"Look For What You Don't See." Don't be afraid to open up an f-stop,throw the f---king lightmeter away! My friend when you start doing this you will really start living. Greg Gross

What would everybody think about having our own yearly forum film festival? Basically it could be limited to short films. Best short film would earn distinction award from Cine- matography.Com. We could have two catagories, students and professionals. Maybe some- one like David Mullen ASC could moderate a panel which would select the winners. Of course providing that he would wish to do so. I personally cannot think of anyone better. The members of the panel would vote for best student/professional short film. Maybe it would be possible to obtain sponsors such as Kodak,Arri,Panavision,ASC,Minolta. Lets say a student for example may win a Minolta light meter,certificate of distinction for best student film submitted. Of course film, digital cinematography,HD,DV. Greg Gross

No! Definitely not! You must live in LA! Preferably you should live and die in LA! Greg Gross

CONGRATULATIONS ERIC! Greg Gross

Park City- "I never went to film school...working for 14 years in the film industry was my film school."- Chris Gorak He directed the film "Right At Your Door" Park City- "I learned filmmaking from loving movies and then just saying,OK,lets do it." Dito Montiel He directed the film " A Guide to Recognizing Your Saints" These films were screening in competition at Park City(SUNDANCE). Greg Gross

Yes Sir, Your point is well taken. Minolta sevice is fairly easy for me being near NYC and N.J.. Greg Gross