Dennis Kisilyov

And I'm certain he got ALOT of money from it, Matrix and all... And most likely gets hired all the time to shoot commecials and such, as I don't see this effect returning to the Big Screen due to it's ubiquitious and household nature - (see reference to reverb and digital delay). I though that "Immitation is highest for of flattery", and at this point his company is the go-to place for this type of a shot. Why all the Legal Fuss. Why is Digital Air so unfriendly. --- Lest give credit to where credit is due. --- I think the effect is Amazing (during it's time in the limelight) and Digital Air/Dayton have done alot to make it useable. I'm certain a lot of effort wen't into it and a lot of hard work, which was paid for (I hope a whole lot...) I wish him/Digital Air financial prosperity and happyness and a long life. ---- But reading their "marketting" would make one think that they are 50% Litigation / 50% Creativity and Production company. Someone should talk to their PR person. All I'm getting from their site is BAD VIBES. They should atleast put something out about the "approximate" costs of these effects to the indie film makers, to the hobbysts. No the part of the Big Six. Develop some "Attribution" license, where credit is given to said "Dayton/Digital Air" for "pioneering" the effect or some such. I'm certain 98% of films shot cannot afford their services, I'm certain 93% of films shot, do not plan to use their services either (or anyone elses services for that type of an effect). And I'm more that %100 certain that if anyone were to ever challenge this "Original Media" ownership, (which most Distributors and Broadcasters don't feel like doing) it would fall. This reminds me of the recent Clear Channel patent, which was real. Clear Channel said that they invented "recording" a live rock concert, or any venue and selling the CD's of that recording in the venue. So Bands were "forced" to use Clear Channel services for Venue Sold Live CD's and pay 60 percent. Yeah, they "invented" recording Live Concerts and Burning Poorly mixed CD's.

I would love to order from Kodak Direct again, unfortunately they have headquarters here in NY, which means anything I buy is taxed 8.75 :-|. Plus UPS shipping makes it come out to about $50.00 for 100ft color.

There is also a Rare law enforcement version of the Praktica in a "Half-Frame" edition. Model is Praktica L2. This one takes M42 lenses, so an adapter would be easy to get and Mirror Clearance should not be a problem due to increase in flange-focal. The bonus of the Pen-F is that it has a weird non-pentaprism way of delivering the image to the VF, with minimal light loss. Just stay away from Pen-FT, viewfinder is 3 stops darker due to a mis-engineered light meter. Yes the Pen-F has no light meter. Pen-F however has some VERY VERY VERY nice lenses at very low F-Stops, competing the Leica M39 rangefinders this 1/2 frame put out exceptional optics from the Zuiko plant. P.P.S. Digital SLR's 23mm x 16mm are pretty close to "half frame" in sensor size.

But you would not get one if your invention was invented previously. During a patent application one has to do a exhaustive search that your invention has not been invented already. (At least this is the process in the states.) But how the hell does one get a patent covering the output of the product. :-(. I think Digital Air is stretching it a bit, I've read their USPTO award, it does not mention this. Maybe they have this awarded in Zurich or AU, but I don't think their published USPTO paperwork allows them to challenge the footage shot with this method. Still Alarming that Artists would do this to other Artists. "I patent Oil Paints and Canvases, therefore if you have an oil painting (or what looks like an oil painting), you must be infringing on my patent, therefore your Mona Lisa is illegal w/o a license." P.S. I did not even know this guy existed, and though this time-track stuff was a standard movie effect, that I allready in my minds eye knew how to reproduce with Digital SLR's from Nikon or Cannon, same DSLR's I've used to make stop-motion animations. Really odd to run into this bit of information.

Only makes sense since 1/2 of the people on this board got some equipment from eBay, or so it seems, the other 1/2 rent their equipment. It would be good to have a sub-folder in the buy/sell section for sellers and their history. We can still do business through eBay's mechanisms this assures proper value for stuff sold, though we will have a reference in the forum for the item. Also people can list positive experiences with sellers that are not on the forums like one gentleman described his positive experience with the 'isellarri' eBay user.

If that happens it's prob a Scam. The only way you should see that Item Again is if it is a re-list with a non-paying bidder. Any other reason for it shoud immediately say "STAY AWAY" The sellers account could have been "hijacked" and the same thing may have been relisted. You know it makes me think. With only about 3,000 items on average most of which are fairly cheap, why is Camerase -> Movie category getting slammed with scams so much?... .... Makes me wonder if it is just done to destroy eBay as a fair market for these goods. .... Scam artists cannot be THAT DAFT as to rake the same category over and over and over and over again... Well you get my point... There are so many more things you can ride a $5,000 listing on, more so that a unique, serial number identified, small quantity item like a Movie Camera. Yeah, so the only reason you should see this camera up for grabs again is if the original winner did not pay, and the seller should be pretty upset about it with some limit on bids usually -- like "If you have zero feedback, I'll cancel you bid" type stuff. My 2 cents.

I just saw a good one. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...em=140095889709 Kinor 16-CX Last day of the auction all bids got cancelled, and I got a fake email (not from eBay) for a second chance offer, with a URL redirect to collect my account information. This one was high level. 1. They've compromised the original sellers eBay account 2. Their forged emails auto-submit User ID into the login boxes of their "spoofed" website. 3. They're also going to compromise the accounts of all bidders on that auction who are not careful. I've reported this, but I think it's going to take eBay 48 hours to resolve it with "nothing" as the outcome as usual. :-(. If you've bid on this auction - CHANGE YOUR eBay PASSWORD. If you see it removed it was a Kinor 16-2CX with 2 Lenses from a seller in USA.

So if McMillan was doing this in the early 80's how is a patent awarded to Digital Air in 2004?!?!

The answer to that question is _ANY_. Certain sounds that you head on an FX track of a movie (be it folley or fx) are recorded with different setups. Most do not sound like they do on the folley/fx at the moment of original capture. As in footsteps are just recorded and then a EQ and a Surround 5.1 Reveb effects/panner are used in conjunction to make it seem like the footsteps are in the background of the soundstage and are muffled, hence are upstairs. The EQ does the muffling as only certain freqencies will travel throught the floor. Busy streets and ambient trails of dialogue, are usually multi layer tracks. With busses and cars going by etc.. it's never just one or two microphones. If you need the sound of people washing dishes next door, just record yourself washing dishes. Then use a parametric eq and reverb to make it sound like it's next door. You can use any stereo mic at close range for that, de-pop and de-noise it before applying the effects. You can use a cheap radio shack mic to do that. If you really must capture remote sounds, than use a shotgun mic with a little sattelite dish attachment, but this is not going to sound good for FX/Foley.

My advice is to use a preamp. You can grab the mono signal and just use a Y cable to connect it to both L/R inputs but I don't recommend it. Sidenote : 1/8 and 1/4 jacks when mono will connect to both right and left + pins on the device. So all you'd need is a simple XLR to 1/4 converter (could be bought as a cable) and a 1/4 to 1/8 adapter to plug into your HDR camera. The sound you'll get from this setup will be sub-par, as you're loosing the "balanced pin" on the XLR. I suggest a cheap ($99 Presonus) preamp before connecting to your HDR. If you are going to go the Adapter route. Just go to Sam Ash or equivalent and buy a "MONO" 1/4 to 1/8 adapter, and a XLR to 1/4 MIC cable. ($20-$30) and you'll be set. Make sure that the adapter is high quality so as not to damage the 1/8 input on the HDR, and make sure the total cable tension will not rip out the plug or cause damage (happened to me with 1/4 headphone plugs adapted to 1/8 with Laptops --- ALOT ---)

I would understand if their patent prevented anyone else from building a 80 lens camera where the film is wound onto a track and exposed. But trying to lay claim to someones original work becuase it looks like it could have been done with a derivative of their camera system is *CRAZY*. Nobody would try and lay claim to my film if it was shot on 24p Video. It's my film. And the sad part is that nobody will tell them NO! At the point a film would go through any sort of distribution, they'd have to file for E&O, this would include things like Coca-Cola logo's in the shot, and of course a paid-in-full license to Digital Air. ** Their patent pretty much covers any multi-camera cinematography with more than 10 cameras. ** I don't know if their patent covers frame interpolation with less than 10 cameras used. .... Take the Steadicam patents for example: It's a 100% original device that stabilzes cameras, at it's very core is an original invention. But Tiffen does not go after people who stabilize their camera in any other way, or worse yet, ask for a per-play license payment for all shots in a production that could be considered/construed "Steadicam" shots. Worse yet, Tiffen does not operate a website that could only be called "We Will Sue You If You Don't Do What We Say.com" ..... I'm sure the person who invented reverb coils has a patent on it as well, but reverb is a standard effect now, nobody is paying royalties, or per-play fees based on their use of reverb or digital delay. I'll let Digital Air speak for themselves. "While our original patents describe the Timetrack camera as a means of producing film-based virtual camera movement we have also been issued patents on the process of producing virtual camera movement using any array of cameras - and we have been issued patents on the product of the process (i.e.: the actual media produced by the process). For more detailed information on the intellectual property behind Timetrack please visit http://www.digitalair.com." The sentence in bold I have trouble with. -> The Actual Media Produced. I have no problems with patents on their devices. But: A Patent on the Media and Original Footage, produced by _ANY_ array of _ANY_ cameras simulating Virtual Camera Movement. What smart person in the USPTO awarded this?

Dispatched email to EFF.

You know what I find odd, is the complete absense of anything except "Licensing" and Infringement Informtaion" on that site, nothing else... This paragraph kills me: "Digital Air licenses its technology non-exclusively on a project-by-project basis to producers of media that use our patented processes and to exhibitors of media that contain products of our patented processes. We presently offer licenses for any media produced or sold in countries covered by our applicable patents. If the media is produced by a Digital Air production service unit (Timetrack or Movia) a comprehensive license package is included as part of the service. If the media is not produced by Digital Air we recommend that producers determine if the process they are planning to use infringes any of our patents before producing the media. In the event that the planned process infringes our patents we stongly urge the producer contact us for a license prior to the media being produced. We are under no obligation to license media that infringes our patents which has been produced without a license." Wow, this makes me want to get about 10 SLR's tomorow and photograph something with their beloved method... Wow.... Unless ofcourse they are deemed silly by everyone, and everyone just disregards their legalese-like, umm..... extortion....

Steven, So wait. Digital Air is saying that If I manage to get 10 DSLR's together to shoot virtual motion I'd owe them royalties on my 100% original copyrightable footage??!?!? I think this patent would fall under "previous invention" and "obviousness". Wow that is so odd that this got awarded. Yeah the Matrix Look and the Howard Stern show intro are iconic and all. But non-reproduceable w/o a fee!?!!?!? Wow. Thanks for the information Stephen.

Cinematographer vs Director of Photography is like; Stewardess vs. Flight Attendant, Cop vs. Police Officer, Secretary vs. Administrative Assistant etc... I guess Cinematographer is older in etymology, while Director of Photography is (please read loosely) more gentrified somehow. Hence people would immediately assume that a "Director of Photography" would not be hands on. I think it's just language/usage :-).

And what are you holding in your photo? :-).

ARRI SR II - shop around... or an AATON like the other member suggested.

For 6k you can get a new A-Cam from Ikonoskop. NEW. non-reflext. but New. My 2 cents.

James (stoop), And there I thought you've given up on film. :-). Canon 8-64 in PL mount seems to be a fairly standart rental item, I'm sure it's up-to par, collimated and such. At T2.4 you have plenty over the f2.8 you've used on the last project. Just run some test film through the setup, even in the rental house. They should have a resolution chart.

So you missed the full nudity scene in the barracks.

Aha! - So a Super-16 gate would go along with a PL-Mount conversion since all the 16OPF lenses would only cover Regular 16 format. Did Lomo/KMZ/Ekran ever make Super-16 lenses in the 16OPF mount? The Magazines need modification as well? Thanks!

Why the mirror?

I've just seen a film called "The 9th Battalion" on IMDB 9-ya Rota, it was shot in russia. Does anyone know what cameras/lenses they used to shoot this. I don't believe it was shot on Kinors. but I could be wrong. Thanks in advance.

Don't do it. It does not save money! New film wether on 100 x 10 , 400 x 2 or 1000 x 1 will cost you the same. Sure if you're buying "miles" of it, then you get a discount. But you'll get pretty much the same discount on 100' day spools that you would on 400' cores. When getting say... 20,000 ft. What it will introduce is dust and other stuff onto the negative. And Labor Time. Yeah, if you've found 1000ft of film for $10 on a core. Yeah re spool it for your camera. But when buying new film it will not make any sense.

Yes I've seen PL Mount converted 10x10 2.5 16mm lenses on eBay for about $300. The format this lens covers is 16mm not Super 16 as far as I can tell. I just got the Kinor 16 mounted version from a gentleman in Poland for about $90 shipped. Also the zoom crank can be removed very quickly, it has two flat head screws holding it to the body of the lens. There are also two additional screwholes for some other accessory on the lens, though I don't know what accessory. The zoom crank can also be dis-engaged with pushing it forward (into the lens), this way you can operate the ring with your hand while the crank just dangles there. Pulling it back, clicks it back into operational mode. In addition there is a zoom lever that can be mounted on the older versions of this lens. Though the older versions are not multi-coated.