Gregory Irwin

Ah. Now I know who LLP is. There have been numerous attempts to organize LLP over the years and they have successfully avoided all of them. I doubt they will ever go union. Another reality. Cheers to you Royce. You sound like a man with integrity. Greg

After reading the article, this is what I take away from it. In the US, people expect to get paid for services rendered but in Canada, they are expected to provide services for free. Is that why you are reliant on government healthcare? I know, I know. I sound snarky. I wish that you and I could do a picture together Richard. We would have a blast with the sarcasm! :) Greg

My friend, you are correct in referring to our dedicated retirement community that is still going strong. It's not closing. I, however, have also referred to the other 4 medical centers that are funded by the MPTF and are for all ages. G

Royce, I think you misunderstand me. I am not a union peddler. My apologies if I came across that way. I actually have many issues with unionism. It's not perfect. What I am, however, is a businessman. That's how I have always approached my career. My questions on this topic have been honest and clear. I have never experienced the non union world and I am trying to understand it. I quite honestly don't understand what one gets from it. Growth? Advancement? Security? These are my questions and the chain of postings have led to this. I realize that success is in the eye of the beholder. I'm not all about money but I do want security for my family. That's it really. For me, all of the technical mumbo jumbo of our job is meaningless if you can't benefit from it. It's obvious that we must know the technical stuff if we are doing the job. But it's boring compared to managing a career with longevity in mind. And yes. The hours matter to maintain the benefits. I don't know the numbers but there are many in the guild who always qualify for the benefits like healthcare. Of course there are those who don't. That's reality. As for organizing jobs, the camera guild is very pro active in this. Who is LLP by the way. I don't know the answer to your question regarding LLP. In closing, joining a union isn't for everyone. Some are fearful, ignorant on the subject or just plain not interested in it. Others may not have had the opportunity to join. It comes down to whatever makes you happy. If your not happy, do something about it. Thanks Royce. Greg

Here is one of,the five locations we have courtesy of,the Motion Picture Television Fund: http://www.mptf.com/healthcare "MPTF Health Centers UCLA Health operates five MPTF health care centers in Los Angeles. These health centers are still exclusive to entertainment industry members, and conveniently located near studios and other industry locations. Now, patients will also have the addition of the UCLA Health network as a robust, health care resource and care provider. No matter which health center you visit, you will receive top quality care from a dedicated team of highly skilled physicians, nurses, and other health care practitioners." Greg

I can't believe it took you this long to respond to my previous comment! YOURE SLIPPING BODDINGTON!!! All kidding aside, I'm glad you like your healthcare. That's important. Our health plan via the camera guild called, The Motion Picture Industry Health Plan, is completely employer driven. They don't take a penny out of my check for my or my family's health care. And it's awesome care. If you live in LA, there are several Motion Picture Hospitals tailored for our member's needs. Most care at these facilities is free. Otherwise, we pay a co-payment that isn't bad at all and go where ever we want and see the doctor of our choosing. That's where Obamacare failed. A lot of people lost the doctor of their choice and have been forced to go elsewhere. Not good. Greg

I would say my comment is more related to holding people accountable - not whining. But then again, I can be quite the professional whiner! ;) So, is it possible for non union, below the line employees to grow professionally over time?

That's an interesting story Michael. Recently, I was the key 1st AC on a so called "big budget" Toyota commercial. It was with a mainstream commercial production company. The producers budgeted for 2 camera crews early on to win the bid for the job. On the day however, we grew to 4 cameras full time (5 day shoot) but the production wouldn't hire the additional crew required to staff our needs. When I lobbied for the much needed additional help, they looked at me like I was on drugs! We were scrambling around like crazy people trying to keep up with the pace we were working and feeling over run. The producing of this commercial was complete amateur hour. They were concerned with only the bottom line rather than considering the bottom line along with the production's requirements. The latter is how good producers work. In our union's contract, we have a mandatory staffing clause. This refers to the minimum crew that must be hired with reference to the work's necessities. As in, how many cameras are employed at once, etc. By design, this isn't to pad the payroll and get as many people working as we can via extortion but rather it's intended to maintain the high work standards that are expected of us. It was astonishing that our producers, who were signatory to the IATSE contract did not have a rudimentary understanding of the contract in which they agreed to. It quickly started to become contentious which is where I'll step back and allow our business agents to handle the conflict. In the end, the producer reluctantly hired who SHE wanted in order to meet the staffing requirements and then it all made sense to me. The additional hires were very young, inexperienced (but union) and eager to blindly do whatever the producer asked. The producer had no previous experience with an established, veteran camera crew who knew the rules of engagement and had a complete comprehension of the mutually agreed upon contract. I think I'm done with commercials. The myopic, narrow mindedness is too much for my heart to take. Call me old fashioned but I have the exact same expectations of my employers as they have of their employees. Greg

And then wait for care. I personally experienced that. Obamacare has ruined our medical system with waste and fraud. It's a joke. But let's not get political. Let's stay on topic.

Actually Richard, there are plenty of indies that become signator with an IATSE contract thus adhering to the contractual rules. I've worked on some and they were smaller budgets. I'm not talking about anything under $1M.

I posted these questions under the topic of "cinematographer's pay rate" but I believe this deserves it's own attention. Let's start a discussion on this. I believe it's important... Here are my questions: What are the non union rates for the other camera job classifications? How many camera operator jobs exist in the non union world? What sort of annual incomes are we talking about? What about healthcare? What about saving for a retirement plan? These are all of the questions our young people need to be asking themselves now, when they have the time to do something about it. I don't think a day rate matters at all. What will you make per year is the important question. Greg

California salaries in numerous businesses and industries have been stagnated for many years. This state has been and still is in serious trouble. Until our political leadership provides a business friendly environment, we will continue to see a bleak job market and stagnant salaries - and/or California industries leaving the state all together for states like Texas or New York. . We shall have to wait and measure the net effect of this newly adopted tax incentive to see its impact on the California entertainment industry. As per our union contract, we receive a 3.5% annual cost of living rate increase on the scale wages. With reference to your above comment about how many are better off than 10 years ago, I would say that there are numerous factors to be weighed in that evaluation. For instance, we have many more members in the IA now than we had then with more jobs fleeing the previously established production centers like LA, Chicago and NYC. When I joined back in the 1980s, we had a total of 500 members on the west coast. Now, we have over 6000 natioanally. That's a whole lot more competition in an environment that has now spread much more across the country forcing people to move to new production centers like Atlanta and New Orleans in addition to the original ones. In other words, we will always have the established, more experience employees that the productions are willing to travel where ever the show is and then there are the employees scrapping for any job. That's simply reality. Here are my questions: What are the non union rates for the other camera job classifications? How many camera operator jobs exist in the non union world? What sort of annual incomes are we talking about? What about health care? What about saving for a retirement plan? These are all of the questions our young people need to be asking themselves now, when they have the time to do something about it. I don't think a day rate matters at all. What will you make per year is the important question. G

I failed to emphasize that the union pay structure is based on an 8 hour, straight time day. After 8 hours we go into 1.5x the hourly from hours 9-11. After 12 hours, we make 2x's the straight hourly till we wrap. G

There is no way he is describing the major studio jobs. It's truly is an education for me to read this thread. It's stunning to realize what the non union market place offers. I cannot comprehend how anyone, except when young and starting out, with no real overhead, could ever make a career with those rates that are mentioned above. There is no way! I mean, I am 53 years old, married, mortgage, etc. Most of you already know, I've been doing this all of my adult life. As a career First AC, I couldn't imagine surviving, much less having any sort of quality of life style working for what these non union DPs are working for with or without gear. Especially as I get older! Here's the flip side of things: Below is a list of current, IATSE scale (minimum) hourlies for feature film and half hour episodic television: DP: $100.17/hour $1,402.38/12 hours Camera Operator: $61.93/hour $867.02/12 hours First Assistant Camera Technician: $53.97/hour $755.58/12 hours Second Assistant Camera: $41.73/hour $584.22/12 hours Loader: $35.85/hour $501.90/12 hours As mentioned, these are the minimum hourly pay scales. Many of us who are veterans can command much higher hourlies than these. This also comes with healthcare benefits as well as retirement and pension plans. If you own gear, that is additional. For me and many others, this is a career rather than an adventure. I guess in the end, both sides of this industry is a reality. I do realize that many people are reluctant to join a union out of fear and / or knowing that they won't be able to compete at that level. I would just like to see an infrastructure within the non union world for crafts people to grow professionally as well as financially as they grow with experience. G

You know Richard, I can't disagree with you on this. G

No room for prima donnas in a team sport! But there is fair market value for skilled labor. Most of the numbers being posted in this thread don't reflect that in the least.

My motto has always been: "It doesn't matter how big or small the house that you're building is, the labor remains the same." Smaller budget? Pay the same and employ me for less days by condensing the schedule to fit your budget. That makes much more business sense by ensuring you get reasonably experienced labor for the precious, limited funds. G

Is this what your looking for? http://www.caseclub.com/custom-rackmount.htm G

You can try this case company http://www.caseclub.com They supply my company with camera equipment cases. They do great work. G

Hahaha! I love it. ;)

Oh my God! I am so bored with this!

The most popular professional cameras: Arri Alexa Red Epic Dragon Sony - F series Canon Buying the camera is the easy part. Will you be prepared for all of the rest that is required such as optics, filtration, support as in heads, tripods, batteries, matte boxes, etc? And paying the insurance to cover all of this annually is another cost. I'm betting that this is not the answer you are looking for but it's a reality. And as technology changes by the month, you must keep up to stay competitive. Take it from me! I own a camera equipment rental house in California and I live with these realities everyday. To be clear, I'm not trying to discourage you but I am trying to point out many variables that you may not have considered. Finally, I would stay away from Black Magic. Too limited. G

Just out of curiosity, why buy and not have your clients rent from an established rental house? Or do you plan on renting your gear to your clients? There are numerous pros and cons to either. G

I know more DPs who complain about front boxes until they realize they can stash their meter in it! : )

Have you considered the below example of a 4x4 tray that internally rotates a pola filter? I would imagine you could mount whatever you want in this tray... http://www.abelcine.com/store/RotaPola-4x5.65-Kit/