XiaoSu Han

Thanks for the thorough answers, I am sorry for not having delivered more information but it's a very special project for us as well. First of all it's going to be a road movie in China and we are travelling to remote areas and thus can't really take that much equipment with us (budget and director wants small crew). At some point we thought it might be wise to buy two LED lights or something similar, maybe with batteries but the director kindof opted against it and again called for natural light. We're still thinking about shooting options but it might look like at the moment the RED ONE with M-X sensor is a good bet for us. We don't have the resources and unfortunately also not the experience to do flashing with negative stock and push-processing. Also the director is a avantgardist on the DV front so digital it would have to be (unfortunately?). As we probably won't have a focus puller we definitely have to stop down to at least 2.8 most of the time and therefore the new M-X sensor with it's low noise floor will definitely help. We're not interested in very high speed lenses as we can't pull the focus anyways and don't want the infamous 5D shallow focus effect everybody sports. I was therefore looking for "classic" examples by the masters for great natural light cinematography (yes we want and will shape the light using reflectors and diffusions) - not really interested in what Soderbergh has done with his natural approach as in my opinion it does not look too good photographically. Thanks for the Zsigmond references, stuff like that was what I was looking for. Masters pushing their boundaries to create something special because of an artistic choice. That's the feeling and cinematography we want to create on this piece, not "the RED camera is so great we can just run and gun". To contribute I've read that Gerry by Harris Savides (dir. Gus van Sant) has been shot with a lot of natural lighting and fireplace lighting as they had lights set up for a fireplace scene but the genny went out just before and they shot it "natural". Great read in "New Cinematographers" by Alexander Ballinger. Thanks for all the references and inspiration! There has to be more!! :)

done. try doing that with the RED ONE. ouch!

Doing research for a movie where we are going to use very little artificial lighting and thus wanted to get some inspiration from the masters. What are the best uses for natural and available light? Of course there are the Malick and Hou Hsiao-Hsien films but am looking for as many as possible. Thanks for any input. cheers, Xax

too bad it's not PL

get a RED :)

Yeah, actually I live in Europe, but in a German speaking country. In Hong Kong our 1st AC there called me "Ricky", I don't know why. Back onto topic, where's that sticky thread? Can't wait!

Isn't it unfair to ask me not to use "hater" but use "fanboy"? "Fanboy is a term originating in the United States, used to describe a male who is highly devoted and biased in opinion towards..." (wikipedia, of course the most objective source there is) "Though, the word "hater" is used in modern-times to describe a person with intense dislike torwards other people or groups based on gender, ethnicity, beliefs, etc." (also from the most objective source on the INTARWEB) I think that those definitions aren't too bad :) - although probably not professional enough for this discussion I agree. But as I learn english from the internet, movies and dialogue I am not too good grammatically. Sorry for that, reminds me of the people who run out of arguments and start pointing out spelling errors though. Love that speech and try to live by some of it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0IEED4w5SE - especially the cynicism(sp?) part.

In general I think that the majority prefers the fast movement and the open beta testing, it's great because we get to really see how it evolves, and you have stuff out faster than anybody else. On the other hand you're training people to expect something grand every other month. If you can keep that up, great, but I read so many impatient postings on reduser, even regarding the M-X upgrade! People got used to getting overwhelmed by improvements and releases every month, almost every week. It's almost addictive, following the news and releases, people get so fanatic about that stuff and that's what most of the haters here don't like I guess. They want to take it slow and as Geoff Boyle I think once said about a RED presentation, "the british way" instead of "the american way" ;) I think that the "experience top crop people" in the community like David Mullen are also the quietest and most patient. They understand that with the Tattoo programme you're going into the right direction. But lots of people want their fix, they want pictures, specs, finally get the Scarlet, finally get the EPIC, etc etc. - heck people even plan and schedule their productions for Scarlet already! They'll have to learn again to be patient I guess.

With all due respect, REDCINE-X is great and free, but "early BETA software" can be only tried and not used for any serious project if it gets updated every second day with something else. The only software which we indies can afford to grade properly on in a proper workflow is Apple Color and we yet have to see the new Color Science implemented there (which is I guess very soon) - so we for example didn't get access to the new color science in post yet because of this limitation. We just can't deal with "one light" in redcine-x beta and then take it to DPX and then to Color if the build might be crashing etc. - no good for a 90 minute movie with deadlines. The workflow in Color is great, but I can only listen to how great results people are getting playing around with REDCINE-X, but for proper finishing I can't really use the NCS yet. So I don't know if it's so good to point people to BETA software without stating that, maybe that's another reason for the frustration. If the post production tools are not streamlined and up to date for everybody it's the same as not available. The same happened with the BETA firmwares and the RELEASE firmwares, people in commercial enviroments couldn't use the NCS although everybody was talking about how good it was. In the real world, you couldn't use it. Just can't go into a feature film with a BETA software that might render 50% of the RED drives out there useless unless you have them serviced. I understand that this whole BETA testing is voluntary and such but RED is advertising all those great new achievements, but most of them are in BETA. So until they go into a release build it's such a big risk to use them on a proper movie and thus they are not really features yet. Not everybody has the ressources of Peter Jackson or Soderbergh to surround themselves with the best of the best that can make everything work. So if I understand correctly the only software where you can actually use the new FLUT and new color science is the beta redcine-x. I think by advertising beta features a lot of anger has been brought upon RED.

Barfight!!!

Wow, why can there only be extremes? If there were more opinions like Mathews... then we could actually learn something.

Thanks for reminding me of that, so do you maybe know what resolution the VFX work has been done?

What I don't like is how people worship numbers like 2000 ISO, 4K and such. A 500 HP car might be faster than a 200 HP one, but it also uses more fuel, is louder etc etc. It's great that someone saw ISO 2000 projected in controlled enviroments in 4K and it might have been an awesome picture. But as long as I go into the cinema and don't like what I see on the screen that has been originating from RED, and lust for 35mm origination (yes I hated Public Enemies), it doesn't help me if some people saw some nice 4K projection somewhere. It happened before, I vaguely remember how people saw the first RED ONE images and where blown away, similarily to what they are reporting now. RED can't even be blamed, there's so many ways the ball can be dropped. For example we got a deal to finish a low budget film shot on the RED at a leading post house. We contacted them to ask about the workflow, how they would approach the material. They said they'd convert it to DPX with something they've written theirselves using RedRushes. We asked for the color space they'd use, they didn't really know. When I asked him to make sure to go through the new color science that was released already back then, he couldn't care less and brushed me off. I guess it never made it through the NCS. It took quite a lot of convincing to ask the production to go back to the RAWs even! If post houses continue to treat it like that, well I'd rather see movies originated on 35mm then. What resolution was Avatar for example shot on? It looked so much better than any other digital movie that I've seen. I guess they did the post right. They were Sonys I think, not 4K, definitely not even 2K. I enjoyed the quality much more than for example "Knowing", "Antichrist", "District 9" (although District 9 was technically ok, but I didn't like the grading) Well see what Fincher does with the new M-X sensors and if they can get the post right.

Thanks! unfortunately we made a stupid mistake in the form of the magenta light there. We'll be back in Hong Kong soon for another film so I'll keep you posted! cheers

Wow, it's like one of those picture posting forums now where everybody photoshops something onto something else and everybody else thinks its so funny!

It would be very interesting to see it in a color version and then discuss it again :). But it's Haneke, so it will never happen (unfortunately?).

We are two DP's that worked together now for 5 features already and are looking for more work this year as we have a few gaps in our schedule still. Please have a look at http://www.stilfabrik.at for our resume. We have a full RED ONE system available and it travels with us. We're usually based in Europe but have travelled to the States and Asia out of our own pockets before and would do so again. Please contact us via PM here or email on the homepage for more excerpts of our work which has not been published yet. cheers, Andy and Xax

Let me rephrase. I understand your opinion, but I don't agree with it. I think that the film would not have had the same effect when watched in color. It would've been too "nice", too "green" and too "sunny", too much hope.

Well I'd like to do bad moves then that earn me a (very very rare) oscar nomination (for a foreign film) then and this list of prizes. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1149362/awards That's what makes an auteur film an auteur film.

Nice one on the booklight. I've used a variation of that on our last film, bouncing a lamp into a 8x4 poly and then attaching a full diff frame in v-shape to it. Quite similar I guess. It would've been interesting to see it without the second Chinaball on her face. Did it take her one stop over set-stop? Good stuff, let us know if we can see it moving somewhere! :) One more question though, how did you get the eyelight onto the mature lady that looks into the camera?

I've worked with Berger's lighting system and it's based around an accurately calculated parallel 1200W Par mounted on a crane and directed with several different mirrors onto bounceboards. - http://cine-rls.com/?t=videos - exposure on an outdated ISO 250 B&W stock would've been very tricky.

I think that black and white suited "The White Ribbon" perfectly. It's Haneke after all! Regarding the reasons for color stock (from a Q&A with Berger, transcribed by Emmanuel SUYS from cml). It's not a choice one can easily make I guess. "The film was shot in color for 3 reasons. First, the German broadcaster, involved in the project, insisted on a color version of the film as an eventuality. The existing B&W emulsions did not meet the requirements needed. They wanted a newer B&W look, distance themselves from the existing B&W films of the past. B&W filmstocks have not evolved as the Colour ones. By combining the use of 5205, 5212 and 5219 with digital post-production techniques (scanning-grading and some digital vfx) Berger would be able to get the maximum of information in the original negative, and so have at his disposal a large palette of colors to grade from. This was needed not only to create this modern B&W look but also it would allow Berger to work the indoor scenes with the strict minimum lights or reflectors. Berger has a very peculiar way of lighting. Haneke wanted especially the night scenes, if possible with no additional lighting. Just a couple of chandeliers or petrol lamps In some scenes the meter read-out in the highlights were around F 0.5. The child coming down the staircase looking for his sister as a perfect example. The night scenes were a constant on the edge shoot as far as negative density was concerned. Color-temperature was at times way below the 2800 K."

Looks great! That last MCU of the girl, is that lit with the two 5Ks bounced? Very beautiful quality light. What a location, is that in London? Fake or real snow? :)

1100 EURO or 1500 USD.

Hey Josh, the bedroom was quite easy, a 2ft 4bank kinoflo on the right side rigged with a softbox as kicker and a chinaball to the left quite high dimmed down as key, thats it, plus the practicals of course and the great outside lights. we had a couple of 2Ks for the hotel lobby and one or two kinoflos, that was it.