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John Hawkinson

Please don't remove my account

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I would like to keep my account. I.ve learnt a lot and would like to carry on doing so. When I feel I can contribute I will do so . Thanks

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You solved your own problem. All you have to do is not post your opinions if you're worried about people judging you on them. There are plenty of other things to talk about here that don't involve opinions. This forum costs you nothing (unless you choose to contribute).

 

That kinda negates the whole "Free and Open exchange" idea this forum had dosen't it. What this forum had was the freedom to discuss such things as the meaning of art the idea of what is jounalistic responibility. The "Opinion" portions of this forum are what made it interesting. I can gleen dry, cold facts from the Kodak or any one of a hundred other websites or books or articles that exist out there, but inspiration comes from the exploration of ideas. Also saying something like "If you don't like it there are plenty of other places on the internet where you can be anonymous." seems to me to be akin to a saying from the 70's "America, Love it or Leave it". They tried to push that chap down our throuts then as well, what those who said that failed to realize is that is you love something, you try and prserve the things that are best in it. Brad. It's not that I'm worried about people judging me on my opinions, it's that I worry about people acting on that judgement with reguards to my career. I would think YOU might have the same kind of concerns sense you work in this industry as well, unless your so sure your that good that NO ONE could replace you, should a person in authority take exception to something you write here. B)

 

Thank you for making my point. So then grow a pair and and don't say "oh I would hate to not get hired, blah, blah, blah." Guess what, you're backpeddaling.

 

Hey Eric Steelburg, just from these coments, if you and another guy came to me for work and you were both equily qualified, guess who I would hire. See what I mean. How's that for making my point.

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Capt. Video:

 

So this is your real name?: "Thanks-James Steven Beverly AKA Capt. Video."

 

Is this you on IMDB?

 

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0079737/

 

If so then you might as well use it as your signature since you've let the cat out the bag. Now we know who you are so what's your problem?

 

And yes, since I know who you are I would never hire you on one of my films, thanks to your insulting comments about Canada.

 

R.

 

PS: Ha! Just kidding! I would hire you first so I could debate you in person :D

 

Yep. I've done a lot of stuff sence then but it's mostly been in the theater. I just feel this requirement is somewhat arbitrary. It's not like there were any real problems with people being annonimous. It goes back to some other things I said in previuos posts. Why should who I am enter into the picture if what I say is relevent and correct. Also some of these discussions get pretty heated and some people can get a completely incorrect idea of who you are from them. If that translates into say the deciding factor between me and another guy getting a job, why should I risk saying what I really think in an industry where everyone knows everyone. So everytime I want to say something I NOW will have to wonder Is it worth the risk, no matter how small it may be, and I HATE that I now have to think that way. I really used to enjoy those spirited exchanges. They were inspirational. Thanks for your last comment :D Thuth be told, I actually think Canada in one of the most beautiful places on Earth. B)

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Is it so bad to stand by public comments and accept responsibility for saying them? Is it so bad to think about what you say publically and consider the feelings and reactions of others? Isn't that the nature of a community? Isn't that called having good manners?

 

You make it sound like being able to offend people anonymously is some sort of virtue, while being considerate of others is some sort of weakness.

 

If I write something I believe in, then I want to sign my name to it and suffer the consequences. Because what good are beliefs if you never have to stand up for them? And how is anyone to know how much you really believe in what you say if you're not willing to sign your name to them? For all we know, you could just be posting a controversial opinion on a whim, just to stir the pot and cause a commotion, then slink away, like some arsonist. Your name on the post gives it some weight, and what's wrong with thinking twice before you post?

 

It's not such a bad thing to take the reactions of other people in your own industry and community into account. That can lead to consensus-building rather than always taking sides. If I'm at a gathering of fellow ASC members, I try and think of things to discuss that help build a sense of community as fellow cinematographers -- I don't try and find ways of pissing each DP off at me. I don't go up to some DP shooting digital and say "digital sucks! You're a hack for shooting digital!" or some such nonsense. I look for shared interests, or if I want to get into a debate over some point of disagreement, I try and find a polite way of talking over the issue.

 

If we ALL were anonymous on this forum, I can tell you that we'd all constantly be getting into some nasty arguments over everything, with a lot of threads degenerating into childish name-calling. Why do you think so many discussion groups end up switching over to a policy of using real names? Just for fun? You act as if you've never even heard of problems associated with anonymous posters -- yet it's quite common in internet forums. Forum after forum finds itself after a few years switching over to requiring that people use their real names. They didn't all start that way. They learned the hard way.

 

I'm not going to hire or fire someone based on their political beliefs, but I may hestitate to hire someone who I feel is not an honest and upfront person, or is someone who likes to start fights, or someone who is not going to be considerate to the feelings of his coworkers.

 

You should see this as an opportunity to build your reputation, so that when someone sees your name, they think "Oh, there's an intelligent person, a creative thinker... I've read some of his posts. He was really helpful to me the other week when I had that question." This could be a positive thing for your career.

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Guest Kai.w
If we ALL were anonymous on this forum, I can tell you that we'd all constantly be getting into some nasty arguments over everything, with a lot of threads degenerating into childish name-calling. Why do you think so many discussion groups end up switching over to a policy of using real names? Just for fun? You act as if you've never even heard of problems associated with anonymous posters -- yet it's quite common in internet forums. Forum after forum finds itself after a few years switching over to requiring that people use their real names. They didn't all start that way. They learned the hard way.

 

Sorry, but this is not true. I've been on dozens of forums none of them required real names. Some of them are quite old and none decided to switch. The manners there have not been better or worse than here. You'll always have name-calling and bad behaviour but thats nothing that a bit of moderation cannot solve. Actually the worst I've seen here happened in the hd forum by people that actually used their real names.

 

How can you believe in your opions not too change? Yet nobody knows they did when they just google up some old posts.

This is not some meeting in a pub. Where conversations happen in "privacy" where there are not billions of people being able to listen to every word you say not only at that very moment but for quite sime time.

 

I think that the content of posts should speak for itself. There will always be (and have been) other users that will chime in if someone talks nonsense.

 

In my eyes privacy just like freedom is a right on its on (especially on the internet)and does not need justification.

Granted, nobody forces me to stay here so I guess I'll just drop out.

 

 

-k

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I wasn't trying to "offend" anyone when I made my comments on Al Jezerra least of all you, but you took offence. You may not take political views into consideration when hiring but that doesn't mean other people don't and let's face it, we're not signing the Declareation of Independence here, nothing we say or debate is going to change any world view, but should some people not have your forgiving nature, it could have an effect on a career, I again bring up Bill Marr, so why risk being cotrovesial? Not insultive, controversal.

 

I CAN see what problems arise when people are ALLOWED to insult and flame unchecked but that's not the case here. Tim has effective ways of dealing with people who do such things and does take care of business. What I'm talking about is not the freedom to insult but the freedom to be completely honest without the need to censor you feelings or opinions because it might result in damage to a very fradgile career which any career in the movie industry is, or the ability to play Devil's advocate and argue a view that might not BE your oun for the sake of gaining insight into a problem and that in my opinion is a virtue.

 

The idea of building a reputaion works both ways, because one might ask basic questions or offer an opinion in opposition to the flock, that might just as easily result in one being thought of as an idiot or a dullard incapable of thought or worse yet, not hire you because they feel any one who would ask such a question can't be qualified to do the job. It's just human nature to think of people who disagree with you in this way.

 

As for building a consensus, when faced with possible reprisals, it can just as easily build conformity where everyone thinks the same and individual thought is squelched. No one want's to risk "offending" anyone so eventually no one has an opionion at all. What an interesting board that would make, huh. B)

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great post, thx. I dont mind using real names..except that if ever u look up ur name on Google it sometimes comes up with ur posts.

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More of a listener than anything else, but will contibute to posts if I feel I can add anything.

This is a very useful and interesting place, so I hope that I am still a member...

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That kinda negates the whole "Free and Open exchange" idea this forum had dosen't it.

No, it doesn't. It's perfectly free and open. People express their opinions all the time on this forum. My point was that you don't have to if you don't want to, but that doesn't mean you CAN'T.

What this forum had was the freedom to discuss such things as the meaning of art the idea of what is jounalistic responibility. The "Opinion" portions of this forum are what made it interesting. I can gleen dry, cold facts from the Kodak or any one of a hundred other websites or books or articles that exist out there, but inspiration comes from the exploration of ideas.

Everyone here still has the freedom to discuss whatever they want, whether they be opinions or otherwise. You're willingness, or unwillingness to do so, based on the fact that you have to use your real name is up to you. I've posted using my real name on this forum from the first day I signed up, and it's never stopped me from expressing my opinions and thoughts. If you're afraid to post your own opinions, then that's your problem, not Tim Tyler's.

Also saying something like "If you don't like it there are plenty of other places on the internet where you can be anonymous." seems to me to be akin to a saying from the 70's "America, Love it or Leave it". They tried to push that chap down our throuts then as well, what those who said that failed to realize is that is you love something, you try and prserve the things that are best in it.

That's a rather grand comparison. Remember, we're talking about an internet forum here, not a country. If you're trying to "preserve the things that are best" in this forum, then you should be all for using real names. The great thing about reading a post that is signed with a real name is that you can get a good idea of where they're coming from based on their experience. When someone posts anonymously the post has much less importance because the person posting could have absolutely no experience in the area they are posting about. Remember the less than honest teenager that used to post advice here almost daily? He didn't have one day of experience in the film business, but he was trying to give advice about formats and D.I.'s and lenses and cameras....it was less than helpful.

Brad. It's not that I'm worried about people judging me on my opinions, it's that I worry about people acting on that judgement with reguards to my career. I would think YOU might have the same kind of concerns sense you work in this industry as well, unless your so sure your that good that NO ONE could replace you, should a person in authority take exception to something you write here. B)

I'm not worried at all about someone hiring me or not based on something I write on this forum. I'm willing to take responsibility for the things I say and write. If someone takes exception to something I write that's fine. It's not like I wouldn't say the same things to their face. What's the difference?

Again, if you're so afraid of bad things happening to you because you write something on this forum, then don't write anything. Honestly, your unwillingness to use your real name here has given me the exact impression that you seem so afraid of.

 

What I'm talking about is not the freedom to insult but the freedom to be completely honest without the need to censor you feelings or opinions because it might result in damage to a very fradgile career

If you're afraid to be completely honest while using your real name, then, well......that's just strange. I can't imagine living in such fear that I was scared to be honest with people who know my name. What do you do in face to face situations? Lie? Hide in the corner? How do you get through life like that? You may have more to worry about than just your fragile career.

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Guest the grinch

I dont know where this stated from, but I agree. Everyone should indicate their real names. except of course there is an hidden agenda.

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Hi, I love this site I have little advice to offer others at this stage as i,m a clapper loader with only a few years experience.However I've been learning heaps from some of the old hands who contribute.Oneday when or if I can help someone I will, but for now I feel I would rather be a silent member..so Mr Tyler please don't cut me from this magnificent resource.

Also I don't understand getting worked up about those members who for whatever reason don't want to leave their real names...who cares! There are few fonies and they are generally cruicified by those in the know fairly promptly.Cheers Duncan. :)

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I didn't realize until I received the email that I had two seperate accounts - this one and one as gkmotion. If Mr. Tyler is reading this, please delete the gkmotion account and you have my sincere apologies for the double membership. I'll be me now! :)

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This is not some meeting in a pub. Where conversations happen in "privacy" where there are not billions of people being able to listen to every word you say not only at that very moment but for quite sime time.

 

If you felt what you had to say wasn't appropriate for more than a couple of buddies in the pub, why would you post it on an international internet forum?

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Hi all;

 

I visit infrequently but find lots of info here.

 

I'm trying to change my log in name but for now I have a signature.

 

Thanks.

 

Janice Arthur

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No, it doesn't. It's perfectly free and open. People express their opinions all the time on this forum. My point was that you don't have to if you don't want to, but that doesn't mean you CAN'T.

 

Everyone here still has the freedom to discuss whatever they want, whether they be opinions or otherwise. You're willingness, or unwillingness to do so, based on the fact that you have to use your real name is up to you. I've posted using my real name on this forum from the first day I signed up, and it's never stopped me from expressing my opinions and thoughts. If you're afraid to post your own opinions, then that's your problem, not Tim Tyler's.

 

That's a rather grand comparison. Remember, we're talking about an internet forum here, not a country. If you're trying to "preserve the things that are best" in this forum, then you should be all for using real names. The great thing about reading a post that is signed with a real name is that you can get a good idea of where they're coming from based on their experience. When someone posts anonymously the post has much less importance because the person posting could have absolutely no experience in the area they are posting about. Remember the less than honest teenager that used to post advice here almost daily? He didn't have one day of experience in the film business, but he was trying to give advice about formats and D.I.'s and lenses and cameras....it was less than helpful.

 

I'm not worried at all about someone hiring me or not based on something I write on this forum. I'm willing to take responsibility for the things I say and write. If someone takes exception to something I write that's fine. It's not like I wouldn't say the same things to their face. What's the difference?

Again, if you're so afraid of bad things happening to you because you write something on this forum, then don't write anything. Honestly, your unwillingness to use your real name here has given me the exact impression that you seem so afraid of.

If you're afraid to be completely honest while using your real name, then, well......that's just strange. I can't imagine living in such fear that I was scared to be honest with people who know my name. What do you do in face to face situations? Lie? Hide in the corner? How do you get through life like that? You may have more to worry about than just your fragile career.

 

I get though life rather well, actually, because I learned a long time ago to NEVER let anyone know everything your thinking. Two sayings come to mind-"Discression is the better part of valor" and "The road to Hell is paved with good intentions" It's very easy to be trying to help someone and unintentionally insult or offend them and sometimes fighting for something isn't worth the cost. Again, I choose my fights and generally avoid those in which I have something to lose and almost nothing to gain.

 

As I said before Hollywood is a very small community and people can get a very distorted idea of what kind of person one might be from a few lines written on the internet. As an example, David wrote-"I may hestitate to hire someone who I feel is not an honest and upfront person, or is someone who likes to start fights, or someone who is not going to be considerate to the feelings of his coworkers." Now suppose I wanted a job from David. I have never been the least bit of a trouble maker on a set, work very hard and never have a bad thing to say about anyone while at work, But is some discussion on this board, he somehow gets the impression (for whatever reason because it's impossible to know exactly how anyone is going to take every single thing you say) that I'm not honest or am someone how likes to start fights. I don't get the job and even worse he tells other people He thinks I'm kind of a jerk and they shouldn't hire me either (again, David is just an example, it could be anyone at all). Why should I join in a discussion where some innocent comment, taken the wrong way could have an effect on my career?

 

As for people with no expirence giving advice, YOU figured out the kid didn't know what he was talking about so did most everyone else. That's my whole point, if Steven Spielbeg came on board and started despensing a load of bad advice, it wouldn't suddenly become GOOD advice simply because Spielberg's name was on it. A load of horse-S#*t is still a load of horse-s#*t by any other name. Things usually come out in the wash and if I was afraid or had the kind of problems you nemtioned I wouldn't have reveiled my name. I did that as a way of showing this is not about me being afraid, but of me have legitimate concerns (and I'll say it again) about this somewhat arbitrary decission to require the posting of full names. Had there been massive abuse, I might have understood the decission, though I still would have probably opposed it as deleting the flamers is just as effective. Tim may own the board but major decissions effects everyone who participate on it. The fact that there are 10 pages of people going "OH PLEASE, Don't delete my account" shows the amount fear already generated. A board is a community of the users, not just the moderaters and sustaining members so it's not just my problem but the problem of everyone who uses, contributes and promotes this board AND that have concerns about any new policy that is introduced. I don't thing many of the "lurkers" plan to contribute any more than they did before the email, but simply would like to keep the option open should they decide they have something to say, but just look, here they are, posting away because they have to, not because they nessesarily want to and if people are forced to do things the don't want to do, how long can a board stay viable? As I said before, If you love something, you try and preserve it and I do LOVE this board. B)

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The fact that there are 10 pages of people going "OH PLEASE, Don't delete my account" shows the amount fear already generated.

 

Just so it's clear... The reason behind deleting accounts with no posts is a practical one. It's a simple way for me to determine who got my 'Pruning' email, and who is registered with an invalid or outdated email address. I suspect there are four or five thousand of these outdated accounts.

 

The 'Please don't delete my account' members are just lurkers who are probably setup to receive email notifications of posts that interest them, and would rather not lose that ability. One post by them is all it takes to continue along as usual. It has nothing to do with 'fear'.

 

Removing accounts that aren't labeled with real names will be a manual "one at a time" proceedure for me, so a few thousand less accounts will save me time.

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