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Carl Nenzen Loven

Diagram of the ACL 1.5 bottom

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Hi there,

I am now trying to have some people make a new bridge place for my ACL 1.5 to fit onto production size dovetails. The problem is, I can not find an actual diagram in the manuals to either make a CAD to send to 3d-print lab, or enough for a machine maker to fabricate something.

Sadly I do not know of any metal workers in the San Francisco bay area, hence why I am trying to have 3D print of it.

Would be happy for any help.

C

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i would not be making a bridge-plate out of plastic (3d printers don't do metal yet, do they?)

 

could you stop by a rental house and measure?

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Car, you could probably make a sketch yourself with some usefull dimensions that would be adequate for those drawing up the part to be made. Or is it that you have to draw up the part?

 

If it's a bit confusing, I probably can send a sketch of that camera base footprint. I measured that up for a cad drawing I was making for some ACL accessories....

 

(EDIT: A printed baseplate doesn't sound good. It should be machined alloy. A good workshop guy with a small mill could make one. CNC will be easier and more sophisticated. Some other ideas soon)

Edited by Gregg MacPherson

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Car, you could probably make a sketch yourself with some usefull dimensions that would be adequate for those drawing up the part to be made. Or is it that you have to draw up the part?

 

If it's a bit confusing, I probably can send a sketch of that camera base footprint. I measured that up for a cad drawing I was making for some ACL accessories....

 

(EDIT: A printed baseplate doesn't sound good. It should be machined alloy. A good workshop guy with a small mill could make one. CNC will be easier and more sophisticated. Some other ideas soon)

Well I still need a CAD to use for the maker. If anyone of you have a machine maker that could offer this, please let me know.

 

Right now I am just a bit stuck with this.

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Sorry Carl, my drawing was for an ACL 2. The ACL 2 does have some details on the base that can be used to align the plate that is fixed to it, but the 1.5 same as the 1, true, so simpler. You just need a surface at the right height, with a mounting hole(s) in the right place.

 

With a 1.5 you have a camera base with less height, so if you want to get the 19mm rods at the correct height there is a good chance. A problem is that the ACL lens axis is offset from the camera base by about 9.2mm. One may need to solve such problems if adapting what's out there

 

There are some cheap 3rd party bridge plates that say they fit an Arri dovetail, for eg...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/CAMTREE-19mm-15mm-Base-Plate-With-Dovetail-Tripod-Plate-for-ARRI-Standard-camera-/351848011085?hash=item51ebc6954d:g:~ycAAOSwzgBYzMwW

 

Again, worth saying that a 3d printed baseplate/brideplate won't be hard or strong enough.

 

If you do CNC an original alloy part...the start can be a drawing or sketch with the needed dimensions on it.

Edited by Gregg MacPherson

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Sorry Carl, my drawing was for an ACL 2. The ACL 2 does have some details on the base that can be used to align the plate that is fixed to it, but the 1.5 same as the 1, true, so simpler. You just need a surface at the right height, with a mounting hole(s) in the right place.

 

With a 1.5 you have a camera base with less height, so if you want to get the 19mm rods at the correct height there is a good chance. A problem is that the ACL lens axis is offset from the camera base by about 9.2mm. One may need to solve such problems if adapting what's out there

 

There are some cheap 3rd party bridge plates that say they fit an Arri dovetail, for eg...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/CAMTREE-19mm-15mm-Base-Plate-With-Dovetail-Tripod-Plate-for-ARRI-Standard-camera-/351848011085?hash=item51ebc6954d:g:~ycAAOSwzgBYzMwW

 

Again, worth saying that a 3d printed baseplate/brideplate won't be hard or strong enough.

 

If you do CNC an original alloy part...the start can be a drawing or sketch with the needed dimensions on it.

 

Yeah teh offset I have taken into account. The Aaton LTR, or the early SR FF should fit without any issue. And the problem for me it really just to mount it more secure to the tripod. Using one screw for me NEVER felt safe enoough.

 

I might contact Bernie again for this one yet again. CNC sounds like the way to go but I have to research it more when I got some sketches on this. I am just afraid of offsetting the screwholes.

 

C

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Just need t think through everything before you spend money or energy. What is the functionality you need from the bridgeplate/dovetail. Do you need to line up some 19mm rods, or adapt/add something for 15mm rods. You may need to configure the design to suit the accessories you have at the film school. So are they 19mm or 15mm rods...? You can get the O'Connor (front view) drawing that shows the position of those rods relative to the lens axis. Follow focus gear with a swingarm has some good flexibility. But the Matte box probably does not. So you need to get the rod position accurate if possible when building an original base plate/bridgeplate or when adapting such.

 

Do you get me..

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Just need t think through everything before you spend money or energy. What is the functionality you need from the bridgeplate/dovetail. Do you need to line up some 19mm rods, or adapt/add something for 15mm rods. You may need to configure the design to suit the accessories you have at the film school. So are they 19mm or 15mm rods...? You can get the O'Connor (front view) drawing that shows the position of those rods relative to the lens axis. Follow focus gear with a swingarm has some good flexibility. But the Matte box probably does not. So you need to get the rod position accurate if possible when building an original base plate/bridgeplate or when adapting such.

 

Do you get me..

The link you sent me before was perfect. That dovetail kit would work.

 

But it's the bridgeplate that is the current issue. I need something the gives me two screwholes instead of one.

 

C

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I don't immediately understand that. Tell us more about the two screw holes. There's only one in the camera base, true?

 

Didn't find anything in the docs on the Eclair site. I'm guessing Kyryll didn't look through those files. The pencil drawn parts we quite cool though.

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I don't immediately understand that. Tell us more about the two screw holes. There's only one in the camera base, true?

 

Didn't find anything in the docs on the Eclair site. I'm guessing Kyryll didn't look through those files. The pencil drawn parts we quite cool though.

This is my point. A bridge plate, or any tripod head would use two screws. And I need to make a plate to put inbetween. Something I can attach permanently to the camera.

 

Then I would be able to order the thing you sent before.

 

C

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Yes, a cheezeplate that fits the Arri dovetail, you could say. Now if you start adding functional elements to that, such as, clamps for rods of whatever type, aligned with the lens axis....and so on, you may end up in a position to specify a part that is easily drawn and then machined.

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Yes, a cheezeplate that fits the Arri dovetail, you could say. Now if you start adding functional elements to that, such as, clamps for rods of whatever type, aligned with the lens axis....and so on, you may end up in a position to specify a part that is easily drawn and then machined.

 

Well I think I used the wrong term from the start here.

 

I need a plate to attach to the body. That lets me attach the normal baseplate.

 

So something that will lock into this, https://www.dropbox.com/s/bojyo13qq3fvuf0/Image.jpg?dl=0

 

Then that can be attached to the things that slide onto the dovetail.

Edited by Carl Nenzen Loven

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All I see in the photo is a camera base for an ACL I or 1.5. Maybe it's easier to just take a photo of the elements that you want to connect, in an exploded stack, then some pics to show any special details.

 

Problem I have is that the 1.5 camera base plane is close to the top of the 19mm rods. If you add an adapter plate to get to an industry standard bridge plate with integral rod mounts you may end up too high. So coming back to earlier ideas, it would help if you specify the funcionality of the base plate. What size rods does it need. 19mm, 15mm studio, 15mm lighweight. See the O'Connor drawing for the specs on these relative to the lens axis.

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All I see in the photo is a camera base for an ACL I or 1.5. Maybe it's easier to just take a photo of the elements that you want to connect, in an exploded stack, then some pics to show any special details.

 

Problem I have is that the 1.5 camera base plane is close to the top of the 19mm rods. If you add an adapter plate to get to an industry standard bridge plate with integral rod mounts you may end up too high. So coming back to earlier ideas, it would help if you specify the funcionality of the base plate. What size rods does it need. 19mm, 15mm studio, 15mm lighweight. See the O'Connor drawing for the specs on these relative to the lens axis.

 

Right.

 

So I need a plate, that can attach to the body, secure. But on it's own bottom, have two holes for screws. So I can attach a baseplate, and then the baseplate to a dovetail.

 

Because no baseplate I have found can lock in the ACL securely with just one screw. Hence I need a plate in-between.

 

Well right now I rather just figure out a way to attach the camera to a baseplate. Figuring out the rods are the next step. But probably use the 19 mm with the ARRI FF's we have a school, and with the Arri_bayonet super speeds.

 

C

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Show us a photo of the elements you want to connect, or if easier, just specify what they are. I get that there is a camera base at the top and an Arri dovetail at the bottom. Maybe show us or specify the bridgeplate you have available already

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Show us a photo of the elements you want to connect, or if easier, just specify what they are. I get that there is a camera base at the top and an Arri dovetail at the bottom. Maybe show us or specify the bridgeplate you have available already

 

Here is a quick drawing.

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/i4q8bohcl2qrysf/20170418_141314.jpg?dl=0

 

Basically just a plate I can permanently attach to my ACL body, so I get two scree holes, so any baseplate can lock in secure to my ACL body.

 

C

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The best way is to decide what you want to achieve in the end, that will define what the configuration functionally has to be. Then refer to the O'Connor drawing showing where the rods need to be positioned relative to the lens axis, then make a better sketch with some dimension in there, then someone might find it easy to offer some advice or design suggestions.

 

What bridge plate do you have. Tell that or send a photo.

 

Alternatively, borrow from the school a dovetail, bridge plate and matte box to suit whatever rods the bridge plate has, with rubber bellows to suit whatever lens you have or can borrow. Build that, but leave the camera unfixed. Now, is the camera too high? How far off centre are you, high or low? Do the existing screwholes in the bridgeplate give you a useful position.

 

If the camera does not feel fixed in rotation with a single screw the a thin layer of hard rubber will do it, even one or two layers of gaffer tape will do it.

 

You could try inviting someone like Satsuki onto your thread. He's probably adapted lots of cameras to bridgeplates.

Edited by Gregg MacPherson

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The best way is to decide what you want to achieve in the end, that will define what the configuration functionally has to be. Then refer to the O'Connor drawing showing where the rods need to be positioned relative to the lens axis, then make a better sketch with some dimension in there, then someone might find it easy to offer some advice or design suggestions.

 

What bridge plate do you have. Tell that or send a photo.

 

Alternatively, borrow from the school a dovetail, bridge plate and matte box to suit whatever rods the bridge plate has, with rubber bellows to suit whatever lens you have or can borrow. Build that, but leave the camera unfixed. Now, is the camera too high? How far off centre are you, high or low? Do the existing screwholes in the bridgeplate give you a useful position.

 

If the camera does not feel fixed in rotation with a single screw the a thin layer of hard rubber will do it, even one or two layers of gaffer tape will do it.

 

You could try inviting someone like Satsuki onto your thread. He's probably adapted lots of cameras to bridgeplates.

 

Gregg I hear you, but the biggest issue currently is to make the top part of the plate. Not the bottom part. That one I can technically drill myself later to fit the baseplate I want, regardless of what system I am going with. I have used only one screw with Arri's 19mm system and it works perfectly with my lenses, so that is not my worries.

 

It is the actual drawing and measurements of the top that I am worried about.

 

C

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You need to be sure that you can get the rod positions that you want. Adding a spacer between the camera and base plate may make that a lot harder. The riser with adjustable 15mm LW rods that Kyryll points to will not place the rods at the right height. Good to aim for standard rod positions.

Measuring the distance from the lens axis to the camera base would be useful. I'll attach this drawing of an ACL 2 with rod positions shown. I marked where I think the 1.5 base is in there, but I'm not sure. Also will give a URL for the O'Connor drawing on rod positions.

There may be a way of solving your problem just by using or adapting existing things, which is why I suggested talking to someone with AC experience.

http://www.ocon.com/inspiration/labs/rod-standards-explained/

 

ACL rod positions.pdf

 

To tell the truth I'm still not sure what you really need. I'm not sure if the thinking process is right. Shifting the issue of rod position down stream in the process, solving that later may make more work.

 

 

Edited by Gregg MacPherson

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Adding some thoughts. If one started with what we might want to achieve. Lets say that we want rods in a standard position relative to the lens axis. Lets assume you want to use the school equipment as much as possible. It may be 19mm or 15mm studio rods, so guess for now 19mm rods. Lets use whatever information we have and stack it up to see what may fit..

 

107mm vertical distance from lens axis to acl 1.5 base..? (Carl can measure that and correct me. I can help with some ideas on how to measure that)
120mm standard vertical distance from lens axis to 19mm rod centre.
110.5mm standard vertical distance from 19mm rod upper exterior to lens axis.
3.5mm vertical distance from ACL base to to top of 19mm rod. The bridge plate casting may may provide this, so you may be close on the height, without an adaper plate/riser.

 

So there may not be room for a riser plate, unless you can accept a displaced set of rods. The other issue is the sideways displacement from lens axis to the 3/8" tread in the camera base. Assuming no riser plate, you probably will need to add a new hole to the bridge plate, which you can't really do with the school bridge plate. Maybe that Camtree one I pointed to. I can see a good place there for an added hole.

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Adding some thoughts. If one started with what we might want to achieve. Lets say that we want rods in a standard position relative to the lens axis. Lets assume you want to use the school equipment as much as possible. It may be 19mm or 15mm studio rods, so guess for now 19mm rods. Lets use whatever information we have and stack it up to see what may fit..

 

107mm vertical distance from lens axis to acl 1.5 base..? (Carl can measure that and correct me. I can help with some ideas on how to measure that)

120mm standard vertical distance from lens axis to 19mm rod centre.

110.5mm standard vertical distance from 19mm rod upper exterior to lens axis.

3.5mm vertical distance from ACL base to to top of 19mm rod. The bridge plate casting may may provide this, so you may be close on the height, without an adaper plate/riser.

 

So there may not be room for a riser plate, unless you can accept a displaced set of rods. The other issue is the sideways displacement from lens axis to the 3/8" tread in the camera base. Assuming no riser plate, you probably will need to add a new hole to the bridge plate, which you can't really do with the school bridge plate. Maybe that Camtree one I pointed to. I can see a good place there for an added hole.

 

What I have decided to do is to repurpose the rod-base that I bought from Les Bosher and just make it fit more snug to my Eclair.

 

Then drill another hole so I can fit it on the plate that goes onto the dovetail. I am looking for a smooth way to move inbetween different mounts (dolly, tripod, stedicam) rather than worried about how to make the rods align up perfectly.

 

C

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