The NPR viewfinder thread

[Duncan Brown]

I recently picked up the other, less common, kind of NPR viewfinder so I figure it's time for a thread for all things NPR viewfinder.  I'll talk about them, then add all kinds of pictures.

First up, the ubiquitous Kinoptik orientable viewfinder.  This seems to be on the vast majority of NPRs I see on ebay and elsewhere.  I think there's actually a less useful fixed version of the VF but I've never seen one.  And of course, since the specs for the mount are identical to the Cinema Products CP-16, and mount made for that would fit too, though the ergonomics might leave something to be desired.

The Kinoptic mount can only screw onto the camera one way.  There's a little lock lever next to the mount that, when loosened, allows the whole viewfinder to rotate toward the front or back of the camera, a full 360 degrees.  There are detents at the most useful positions (every 90 degrees).  When the VF is pointed straight back, the image is upright.  As you rotate the finder forward, the image starts to spin clockwise, ending up spun 90 degrees for every 90 degrees you rotate the finder.  So if you point it straight up, then stand to the VF side of the camera and look down, the image appears upright to you but it's twisted vs reality.  If you were to stay behind the camera and look into it, it's on its side.  Useful in a pinch with some getting used to it, but mostly you're going to want to keep it pointing straight back (and lock the little lever).

With it locked from rotating and pointing straight back, you can spin the more rearward section of the finder to any angle (no detents), also a full 360 degrees.  In this case, however, the image orientation does not change - if it's pointing straight back and you rotate it for comfort vs which eye you sue, for instance, the image stays upright.

There's a tiny knob near the eyepiece that, when loosened, allows you to make diopter adjustments to match you vision, by spinning the eyepiece.  Then you lock it in place again with the little knob.

There's a shutter built into the eyepiece.  If it's loose, the idea is that it springs into the closed position all on its own, though at this point every one I've seen takes a little help sometimes.  Then if you push the eyecup in (with your eye, or with your hands), the shutter springs open and (if all goes well) clicks into the open position and stays there while you film.

All in all a respectable little finder, with the caveat that spinning it around in the fore/aft direction makes the image orientation wonky.

Some pictures:

 

Edited November 8, 2023 by Duncan Brown

[Duncan Brown]

Some more Kinoptic VF pictures:

 

 

[Duncan Brown]

Now for the much less often seen Angenieux  fully orientable always-upright-image viewfinder.  The basic functionality is the same as the Kinoptik, but without the goofy image spinning.  In this case rotating it fore and aft does NOT spin the image in the VF - it's always upright!  Also, no detents.  And there's a lock ring instead of a little lever - turn it towards the S to lock it; the other way to allow it to rotate.  I thought it was weird that there are two slots in the mount, so it can be put on the camera one of two ways but if you think about it, it makes sense.  The standard way to mount it is with the red dot upward.  Then the image is always upright.  But if you were to spin it 180 degrees, then stand in front of the camera and look into it the image would be upside down!  (Well, strictly speaking, you are looking into it upside down compared to where it started.)  So if you absolutely have to operate the camera in that position, you could mount it with the red dot down, and be all set.

Just like the Kinoptik, the rear part can spin around 360 degrees for matching up with where you want to put your eye, and doing so does not change the orientation of the image through the finder.

It has the same little lock knob and diopter adjustment as the Kinoptik.  But the eyepiece shutter is opened and closed with a big skinny ring right behind the eyecup, and is not done automatically for you as you press your eye to it.

Some pictures:

.

[Duncan Brown]

Some more pictures:

 

[Kamran Pakseresht]

That angeniux is beautiful, I’d really love to find one. Thanks for this post, was unaware there were options. I remember getting my NPR out of storage some time back and thinking it had been damaged because I could not get the lens to properly focus. Turned out it was just the viewfinder needing an adjustment, was a huge relief!

[Duncan Brown]

The standard Angenieux VF on the ACL spins the image as you rotate it, but then there's another ring you can turn to put it back where it needs to be again.  That's perfectly fine, as you don't generally rotate your viewfinder mid-shot or anything.   But this one that does it automatically is like magic!  I can't even wrap my head around how it works.  Very happy to have found a loose one.

Duncan

 

[David Sekanina]

https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:7124126878960922626/

[Gregg MacPherson]

4 hours ago, David Sekanina said:

https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:7124126878960922626/

Thank you David. Searching Schmidt–Pechan prism on google is a fine start point to understanding how the Kinoptik and Ang VFs on the ACL work. I wish you had pointed to that sooner. Hope your S16 camera devpt is gong well.

Gregg.

[Gregg MacPherson]

Nice as it is to have self leveling viewfinders, I remember coping quite well without one. Most of the time with an ACL on sticks I was leaning over it, the VF rotated 45 to 90deg and my head  the same, to level the image. The young, unspoilt directors also seemed fine with it...

[Duncan Brown]

8 hours ago, David Sekanina said:

https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:7124126878960922626/

<mind blown>

Duncan

Edited November 8, 2023 by Duncan Brown

[Duncan Brown]

3 hours ago, Gregg MacPherson said:

Nice as it is to have self leveling viewfinders, I remember coping quite well without one. Most of the time with an ACL on sticks I was leaning over it, the VF rotated 45 to 90deg and my head  the same, to level the image. The young, unspoilt directors also seemed fine with it...

OK old man, and you probably walked to the set and back, uphill both ways, barefoot in the snow, too!  (I kid, since I think I'm actually older than you are...)

Duncan

[Boris Belay]

Cinema Products used the same VF mount on their reflex models, so the CP viewfinders are compatible with NPRs as far as I know (no first--hand experience).

ACL VFs are not compatible (wrong optical distance to the Ground Glass), although Eclair USA sold the Kinoptik NPR VF for the ACL with an adapater ring (it's an option mentioned in one of their Price List from the mid 70's).  Which means the distance is longer on the ACL, so conversely there is no way to adapt an ACL VF to a NPR.

[Duncan Brown]

If someone wants to sell me cheaply one of those legendary CP-16R fully self-orienting viewfinders, I'd be happy to try it on my NPR ?    In general, it looks to me like the CP-16R finders put the eyepiece a little too far forward to be comfortable when operating an NPR, but that's just a guess.

By the same token, I think adapting an NPR VF to an ACL would put the eyepiece farther back then the standard VFs... but that could possibly be a good thing in some cases?  I guess someone needs to come up with a 3D-printed design for that mythical adapter!

Duncan

Edited November 9, 2023 by Duncan Brown

[Gregg MacPherson]

6 hours ago, Boris Belay said:

.....Eclair USA sold the Kinoptik NPR VF for the ACL with an adapater ring (it's an option mentioned in one of their Price List from the mid 70's).  Which means the distance is longer on the ACL, so conversely there is no way to adapt an ACL VF to a NPR.

Did the adapter ring have any optical elements? If not then a simple spacer shifting the VF mount away from the camera body would work..?

[Duncan Brown]

1 hour ago, Gregg MacPherson said:

Did the adapter ring have any optical elements? If not then a simple spacer shifting the VF mount away from the camera body would work..?

That's my interpretation of what he's saying.  Of course it also has to adapt the different mounts, but that should be...straightforward?  They're the same idea, but different sizes, and I think different orientations of the nub.

Duncan

[Boris Belay]

On 11/9/2023 at 8:21 PM, Gregg MacPherson said:

Did the adapter ring have any optical elements? If not then a simple spacer shifting the VF mount away from the camera body would work..?

No optical elements, just a screw mount and attaching base.