Timecode problem

Jim Ferguson · December 24, 2005

Hello...

I'm shooting a feature on the XL2. We've shot ten tapes so far. The editor has reported to me that the final three tapes have no timecode. The camera operator, the director, and I all saw the timecode rolling on the camera, however somehow, the editor cannot find anything on the tapes themselves. ?????

He will have to dub the tapes with the proper timecode in order to import them into his system.

So, what's going on? I want to make sure that this doesn't continue for the rest of the film.

Has anyone experienced something similar? Any advice?

Thank you all for your help.

Jim

I suppose I should add that I was manually entering the start timecode for each tape. Also, we are importing into Final Cut.

Thank you!

Jack Barker · December 25, 2005

Jeez, Jim.

I've never heard of this happening before. Have you been able to replicate the result back home in a step-by-step sort of way?

The only thing I can think of is that you forgot to hit "Set" before you closed the menu. Were you using Record-Run, Record-Run Preset, or Free-Run? 60i, 30p, or 24p?

Edited December 25, 2005 by Jack Barker

Jim Ferguson · December 25, 2005

Jack,

Thank you for your response.

Yeah, I've never seen this either.

I was shooting Rec Run Preset. 24p

The timecode was definitely rolling accurately on the camera. It's just in the tape that it doesn't seem to have recorded.

Unfortunately, the camera is rented. It's back at the shop until we begin shooting again. I'm not able to play around with it to try and recreate the problem.

What could it be?

Jim

Phil Rhodes · December 26, 2005

Hi,

That's almost inconceivable. The timecode is embedded in the frame data with the picture; I can't even begin to construct circumstances where you could have timecode visibly rolling while you're shooting, and yet have picture but no timecode on the tape. Either someone has a switch or software option set wrong somewhere, or there's a very strange, very low-level hardware fault somewhere. I suspect finger trouble.

Phil

Jim Ferguson · December 28, 2005

"Inconceivable"... That's how I feel, that's why I'm so frustrated. I've been assuming a camera error, as I'm not digitizing the footage myself. It seems the editor has imported a lot of footage in the past and never had this problem. Also, the first seven tapes were fine.

Someone mentioned to me about a possible "external timecode" setting. I've never heard of this, any ideas?

Thanks again,

Jim

Jack Barker · December 28, 2005

There's centainly no mention of "external time code" in the manual, nor in my fairly extensive computer library of articles, how-toos, etc. Maybe you could explain what it means?

Jim Ferguson · December 29, 2005

"external timecode"

I feel the same way as you.... I have no idea what it means, nor have I ever heard of it or seen it in a manual, etc. It's something that was mentioned to me second-hand from a video guy. I thought I would throw it to the forum to see if anyone else has heard of it... anything's worth a shot!

Jim Ferguson · December 29, 2005

Also:I presume that he is speaking of picking up eternal timecode from an outside source as I believe some high-end cameras (beta, etc.) do. Mini-DV cameras don't have this feature as far as I know. - But this is a guess.

Jack Barker · December 29, 2005

Not quite, Jim.

This is from an old Adam Wilt review of the Panasonic DVX100;

"...You can set the timecode mode, preset it, and twiddle user bits (the camera lets you dub source timecode from another tape over FireWire)." This is presumably for code from a DAT recorder, or similar, so maybe not relevant.

There's also a reference to "External Time Code Offset" in the Pro Tools 6.6 Addendum (though I have no idea what this means).

A Google search turns up mostly time code generators and some software generators.

I'm stumped.

Edited December 29, 2005 by Jack Barker

Tim J Durham · December 29, 2005

Hello...
I'm shooting a feature on the XL2. We've shot ten tapes so far. The editor has reported to me that the final three tapes have no timecode. The camera operator, the director, and I all saw the timecode rolling on the camera, however somehow, the editor cannot find anything on the tapes themselves. ?????

He will have to dub the tapes with the proper timecode in order to import them into his system.

So, what's going on? I want to make sure that this doesn't continue for the rest of the film.

Has anyone experienced something similar? Any advice?

Thank you all for your help.

Jim

I suppose I should add that I was manually entering the start timecode for each tape. Also, we are importing into Final Cut.

Thank you!

Hi Jim,

Were you capturing (trying to capture) with something OTHER than your XL-2? I have one and they are notorious for being shipped out with mis-alligned heads. What that means in the real world is that the tapes may not play back correctly on anytthing other than the camera, which was the case with MY XL-2.

Try using the same XL-2 for capture. I suspect this might solve your problem.

Jim Ferguson · December 29, 2005

Thanks for the info on the external timecode.

They were capturing on something other than the camera itself. I'll see if they can try to use the camera. Perhaps this will fix it.

Thanks again everyone.

Jim

Jim Ferguson · January 22, 2006

It worked! We imported with the xl2 and didn't have a problem. After your suggestions and talking to Canon, this seemed like the only possibility. I don't understand why that is, but... it is.

Thank you all.

Tom Mott · September 14, 2006

WOW... interesting thread... you can always just dub the tape so that new timecode is created - which would be necessary to go back and edit later if the media goes offline.

Chris Durham · November 7, 2006

My XL2s timecode carries over to the ZR600 handicam that I use for quick and dirty shots - but of course that's Canon to Canon so that doesn't mean much; but if you've got a little Canon like that you can try it instead of carting around the XL2 just to dump.

Tom Weilguny · November 22, 2006

one thing that may help (just for future reference) with capturing is to record blank to all tapes before you use them, prevents timecode gaps and should help with your problem as well.

Jonathan Bowerbank · February 9, 2007

This is a really old thread...but I'll add to it anyway :)

The XL1, 1s and 2 all have timecode issues when importing into FCP. It's mostly a Final Cut problem, they just don't play well together, I don't know the specifics of the issue but it happens very often.

David Auner aac · February 10, 2007

The XL1, 1s and 2 all have timecode issues when importing into FCP. It's mostly a Final Cut problem, they just don't play well together, I don't know the specifics of the issue but it happens very often.

Hi Jonathan,

a friend of mine who shoots a lot on his XL1 says that the thing is close to useless for capturing anything into any system. He never was able to use it for batch capturing. He is using Avid XpressDV and he always has to crash capture without timecode, otherwise he can't get footage into his machine. I have experienced the same thing way back on another machine using another XL1. So maybe this isn't just a problem with FCP, but something in the camera itself... something in the firewire board maybe.

Cheers, Dave