Early 90's British Crime Dramas

Leo Anthony Vale · May 3, 2006

Something like THE NEW AVENGERS I'd consider to be completely slick, but seeing as it was shot on 35mm by feature DPs, is there any wonder?

However, a friend of mine showed me Sweeney the movie shot on 35mm (and it's sequel!) on DVD not that long ago (photographed by the series DP Dusty Miller), and that seemed like a pretty good transfer but still had that look- perhaps "pulpy" implies something too derogatory- gritty, warts and all is more like it.

__Wasn't most of the 2nd season of 'The New Avengers' done in Canada?

However-I'm having a terminalogy problem.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by 'pulpy'.

I think of it as garish colors and rather lurid scenes. More like an Italian horror movie than a British TV show. I'm having to fiddle with contrast and color when I'm watching a British show on mystery.

Though PBS shows in general have been looking bad lately.

I think of 'pulpy' as refering to pulp magazine art. Lots of bright colors and excessively melodramatic scenes soas to gab one's attention. the very antithesis of the BBC look.

Some examples:

--LV

May 3, 2006

Well, like we said, Euston films wasn't the BBC.

I said pulpy instinctively, literally refering to pulp (the ugly mixture that makes paper)! Again, probably not the most appropriate wording, especially given that nothing was wrong with the actual photography. All the transfers I saw growing up looked really rough, and it's only naturally enhanced by the post-industrial locations/atmosphere and lowlife subject matter (and shooting 16mm for TV in the 1970s). You could argue it as "pulpy" in the comic book sense being so stylised in it's own right- it's an episodic 70s British buddy cop show for goodness sakes!! ;)

http://www.nostalgiacentral.com/tv/cops/sweeney.htm

I stand by my comments, although I wholeheartedly agree to disagree with everyone else. ;) Definitely worth checking out if you are unfamiliar.

Season 2 of NEW AVENGERS was indeed shot in Canada, but I'm pretty certain the crew remained British.

Can you please go into detail about contrast/colour knobs on British shows broadcast in the States? Sounds more like the shortcomings of NTSC.

Leo Anthony Vale · May 4, 2006

Well, like we said, Euston films wasn't the BBC.

I stand by my comments, although I wholeheartedly agree to disagree with everyone else. ;) Definitely worth checking out if you are unfamiliar.

Season 2 of NEW AVENGERS was indeed shot in Canada, but I'm pretty certain the crew remained British.

Can you please go into detail about contrast/colour knobs on British shows broadcast in the States? Sounds more like the shortcomings of NTSC.

---I'm used to ITC shows. Which we were probably seeing here in the 70s broadcast from 35mm prints.

I would guess when CBS ran 'The New Avengers', they were brodcasting 35mm prints.

I was assuming pulpy was referring to the soft, mushy look of Monty Python film inserts.Which might look even worse here because of the NTSC conversion.

We no longer have knobs on our TV sets. We now push buttons on a remote, first MENU than the various settings.

Rather than just NTSC, the cable company and various cable stations have different ideas as to what constitutes proper color, contrast(picture) and brightness. Also the high quality of cable signals is greatly exaggerated.

If you complain about interference patterns, they'll tell you to turn down the sharpness, then it won't be so noticable.

Anyway on Turner Classic Movies, I usually turn up the brightness and turn down then the color.

On PBS which has most of the British film shows the color is very desaturated over all with the flesh tones relatively more saturated and a bit too red for my tastes. I usually turn the color up and the contrast down, partially to keep the flesh tones and reds from getting too saturated and my PBS signal is often too noisy.

The WQED/PBS French & Indian War series was HDTV with a film look finish, looked quite soft and noisy, at least on my set.

Maybe I'm just stuck with bad cable.

---LV

Freya Black · May 4, 2006

---I'm used to ITC shows. Which we were probably seeing here in the 70s broadcast from 35mm prints.
I would guess when CBS ran 'The New Avengers', they were brodcasting 35mm prints.

---LV

ITC was the production arm of ATV which held the franchise for Birmingham until the government of the time decided things needed fixing. Its most famous production was probably something called "The Muppet Show".

Euston films was a production only offshoot of Thames founded in 1971 to produce a certain kind of programming. Thames lost its franchise because Maggie was upset about a programme called "Death on the rocks".

Both were part of the ITV network. Thames is still an independant production company but no longer a broadcaster.

love

Freya

Hi,

The Mill, MPC, OnePost, VTR, The Machine Room, Red Post (may have merged with another).

Stephen

I thought the Mill was part of the farm? Thanks for the tips. The only other one of those I knew of was the machine room, so I will investigate further. :)

love

Freya

Edited May 4, 2006 by Freya

Stephen Williams · May 5, 2006

I thought the Mill was part of the farm? Thanks for the tips. The only other one of those I knew of was the machine room, so I will investigate further. :)

love

Freya

Hi,

The Mill will have the highest ratecard, but may do deals. The Machine room has just upgraded a Shadow to a Spirit and offers good value for money IMHO. What is most important with telecine is how you get on with the colourist.

Stephen

Freya Black · May 5, 2006

Hi,

The Mill will have the highest ratecard, but may do deals. The Machine room has just upgraded a Shadow to a Spirit and offers good value for money IMHO. What is most important with telecine is how you get on with the colourist.

Stephen

I actually meant I was going to investigate the ones I hadn't heard of because you never know but yes the colourist is going to be an important factor, sadly price will aldo be an important factor for me, so it all depends on how it balances.

love

Freya

Stephen Williams · May 5, 2006

I actually meant I was going to investigate the ones I hadn't heard of because you never know but yes the colourist is going to be an important factor, sadly price will aldo be an important factor for me, so it all depends on how it balances.

love

Freya

Hi,

If you are happy to work in the evenings then you can get a good deal for sure at many top London post houses.!

Leo Anthony Vale · May 5, 2006

ITC was the production arm of ATV which held the franchise for Birmingham until the government of the time decided things needed fixing. Its most famous production was probably something called "The Muppet Show".

Euston films was a production only offshoot of Thames founded in 1971 to produce a certain kind of programming. Thames lost its franchise because Maggie was upset about a programme called "Death on the rocks".

Both were part of the ITV network. Thames is still an independant production company but no longer a broadcaster.

---The ITCs I was thinking of more on the lines of the Gerry Anderson stuff, 'The saint' and 'The Prisioner'.

Forgot about 'The Muppet Show' which was tape anyway.

Who'd a thunk 'The Buccaneers' and 'The Adventures of Robin Hood' were ITC. I always thiught of them as Sapphire Films. a subsidiary?

It seems we got more ITCs than Eustons. And the Eustons I recognized were mostly on 'Masterpiece Theatre', thus getting Alestair Cooke introductions.

---LV

May 5, 2006

Yeah, Sapphire made their stuff for ITC.

Only natural that you'd get more ITC stuff over there as it was made to pander to the American market (American stars/lead characters, Britain played in a stereotypical/romantic vein, Hollywood storylines, slick production values). Lew Grade's trademark. Euston was very much smaller scale for the UK market only. Quatermass 79 was as ITC as it got.

Freya Black · May 5, 2006

Yeah, Sapphire made their stuff for ITC.

Only natural that you'd get more ITC stuff over there as it was made to pander to the American market (American stars/lead characters, Britain played in a stereotypical/romantic vein, Hollywood storylines, slick production values). Lew Grade's trademark. Euston was very much smaller scale for the UK market only. Quatermass 79 was as ITC as it got.

Mid Atlantic was the phrase that was thrown around a lot to describe a lot of ITC output! :)

Was Saphire and Steel an ITC thing?

love

Freya

May 5, 2006

ATV, so technically yes in the same way The Muppet Show was (distributed outside the UK as ITC). Anyway, being shot on tape Sapphire and Steel probably won't be of interest to our dear Mr. Vale. ;)

John Holland · May 5, 2006

Mid Atlantic was the phrase that was thrown around a lot to describe a lot of ITC output! :)

Was Saphire and Steel an ITC thing?

love

Freya

Yes think so . plus Space 1999, UFO, Thunderbirds , Captain Scarlett, etc, Randal and Hopkirk , The Persuaders , UFO . Danger Man , theres more ,but cant think at the moment . john holland.

Leo Anthony Vale · May 6, 2006

ATV, so technically yes in the same way The Muppet Show was (distributed outside the UK as ITC). Anyway, being shot on tape Sapphire and Steel probably won't be of interest to our dear Mr. Vale. ;)

---Much of this thread was about film scanners. Thus a tape show seemed a bit irrelevant.

Also I recall that the Muppet show was actually produced on NTSC. So it was defineately aimed at the american market.

Another way that ITC aimed their product at the American market was the number of episodes in a series.

Way back a series needed 30+ episodes for a year. Summer replacement series could get away with 13 episodes.

a 6 or so episode series had nowhere to go. Those Euston series wound up on Masterpiece Theatre since it's format could handle, in deed, required short series.

---LV