Scientologists get lost

[Phil Rhodes]

Hi,

 

I'm a bit alarmed. As of twenty minutes ago, I have now been approached by four "industry" people from LA with the thought that I should become a scientologist. What's even more enlightening is that three of the four have been steadicam operators. The approach has been standard for the organisation - suggest you're depressed, imply that a sure and certain cure exists, recommend Hubbard literature - but no less unwelcome or inappropriate.

 

Two things occur.

 

First, scientology does seem to be successfully targeting people with a very large disposable income. This does rather beg the question of why they'd target me.

 

Second, is the movie industry really this inbred? Are scientologists the new freemasons? Am I career-screwed until I've personally paid David Miscavige my entire life's savings?

 

To state it publically, attention scientologists: I could not possibly be less interested in the bad science fiction that is your system of belief. I don't care if the "church" of scientology has the power to make me an Oscar-winning ASC by this time next year; my inner alien ghosts are not for sale. Since the "church" is clearly a commercial, for-profit organisation (and has failed to gain recognition as a religious entity under UK law) I will consider any further approaches unsolicited commercial email.

 

Phil

[K Borowski]

Hi,

 

I'm a bit alarmed. As of twenty minutes ago, I have now been approached by four "industry" people from LA with the thought that I should become a scientologist. What's even more enlightening is that three of the four have been steadicam operators. The approach has been standard for the organisation - suggest you're depressed, imply that a sure and certain cure exists, recommend Hubbard literature - but no less unwelcome or inappropriate.

[. . .]

Phil

 

Phil: Not sure if Comedy Central runs behind in the UK what it does here in the States, but there's an excellent um, documentary, ahem on this religion that you and everyone else "considering" scientology ought see :-)

"You guys are kidding, right?" B)

 

Regards.

 

~Karl

[timHealy]

That South Park episode where Cartman was the alledged second coming of L Ron Hubbard was absolutely brilliant.

 

Tim

[Canney]

Those guys in Boston had me take a free stress test. Then they tried to get me to by there book called Dyanetics. Telling me it would make my life better and stuff. And there church on 400 Beacon street is funded by the publisher. They seem kind of like a scam people to me.

[Phil Rhodes]

Not Cartman, Stan.

[K Borowski]

Not Cartman, Stan.

 

Excellent, you've seen it. My advice would be to quote lines from the episode the next time you encounter people like this. They say something, yadda yadda yadda, to which you respond with "You're joking, right?" :lol:

 

~Karl

[Guest tkim]

one of the most disturbing things about scientology, to me, has been how undiscussed it is.

it is SO prominent in life in LA, yet (up until Tom and KAtie) you didn't hear about it anywhere else.

props for the open discussion.

[Guest]

So what makes a religion viable for attack on this forum?

 

Why pick on the Scientologists?

 

Why not Muslims, Jews, Catholics, Mormons, Jehovah's Wittnessess, Baptists, Methodists...........

 

Many other Hollywood big shots openly promote their religions to people on sets and to the public at large.

 

R,

[Galen Carter-Jeffrey]

So what makes a religion viable for attack on this forum?

 

Why pick on the Scientologists?

 

Why not Muslims, Jews, Catholics, Mormons, Jehovah's Wittnessess, Baptists, Methodists...........

 

Many other Hollywood big shots openly promote their religions to people on sets and to the public at large.

 

R,

 

because sciontology is a cult

[Kim Vickers]

Interesting annecdote from Phil -- almost frightening.

 

There's a scene in "The Life and Death of Peter Sellers" which brilliantly evinces the pathetic nature of cult psychology:

 

Sellers goes to see a "fortune-teller" who tells him he will only be happy by bedding more women. Sellers likes the sound of that and complies. He eventually comes to trust anything the fortune teller has to say. Once this trust is established, we learn that the fortune teller is an agent-in-disguise, acting on behalf of the studios. When the studios can't get Sellers to agree to work on a project by conventional means, they use the fortune teller to pass along their wishes in the guise of sage advice. The outcome in one particular case is tragi-comic: the studio wants Sellers to make a movie with Blake Edwards, and so the fortune teller advises Sellers to pay special attention to anything that comes into his world with the initials "B.E." (Blake Edwards). But Sellers mistakes B.E. for Brit Ecklund -- and marries her!

 

I remember thinking that Bowfinger has a pretty good sendup of Scientology -- the bits with Terrence Stamp and "MindHead"...or something like that.

 

So don't worry Phil...not everybody is fooled.

Edited May 9, 2006 by Kim Vickers

[Scott Fritzshall]

So what makes a religion viable for attack on this forum?

 

Why pick on the Scientologists?

 

Why not Muslims, Jews, Catholics, Mormons, Jehovah's Wittnessess, Baptists, Methodists...........

 

Many other Hollywood big shots openly promote their religions to people on sets and to the public at large.

 

R,

Because Scientology is not a legitimate religion, it's a cult that was started a few decades ago by sci-fi author L. Ron Hubbard for the explicit purpose of scamming money out of people.

[Mike Kaminski]

I view scientology as equal with christianity, islam, budhhism, etc. and i suppose this more objective view comes from the fact that i am an atheist.

 

Its all the same. The REAL question that i have is why is the mocking of the obvious-ridiculousness of scientology beliefs accepted but considered bigoted when its judaism or islam?

 

The only difference between a cult and a religion is numbers.

[James Steven Beverly]

Although, I'm a evangelical druid myself, I can definately see the value of Scientology as a relidgon. Just look at what it's done for Tom Cruise. Without Scientology all he would be is just your just your average megla-maniac movie star who earns multi-millions a picture and has the oportunity to sleep w/ Katie Holmes whenever he likes. But with the enlightening religion of Scientology he can now also be a lay doctor . Just Imagine, with no formal training whatsoever he can dismiss an entire branch of medical science and declare insane people don't need to see psychitrists. WOWIE, why didn't we think of that before? This guy is a F*#KING genius!!! Fortunately, Scientology accepts cash...MAsive MASIVE ammounts of cash... so you too can join this perfect mind fu***, AHHH, religion, OR you could just TELL people in the BIZ YOU ARE a scientologist and keep your money for gambling and prostitutes like I do. (evangelical druids are very open minded). I miss the good old days in Hollywood when all you had to be was Jewish. :rolleyes:

Edited May 9, 2006 by Capt.Video

[Sol Train Saihati]

JJ Abrams is a scientologist.... Just saying, might be more than a coincidence.

[Guest]

Interesting how two people have stated that attacking Scientology is ok because it is a cult.

 

I have Websters here and it defines a "cult" as: System of worship; small group or sect.

 

Which is exactly in line with the idea that Mike Kaminski puts forward, "The only difference between a cult and a religion is numbers."

 

Why don't you religous biggots also attack Mormons and Jehovah's Wittnessess then? When you're done with those groups who will you turn on next? The Jews? There are only about 12 million Jews in the world, quite a small number. I suppose you'll round up all small religous groups and stick them internment camps?

 

Luckily Canada and the USA have constitutions that protect people's right to worship no matter how whacky the majority thinks their beliefs are.

 

When you try and justify public attacks on the Scientologists you are going down a very slipperly slope, once you're done with them you'll turn on some else, and then another, and another.....

 

R,

[Mike Kaminski]

I think it just illuminates the inherant silliness of supernatural worship. All the world religions have been around for a long time so we all view them as being "proper" on the basis that they were here first but since Scientology is based on contemporary superstition and not some long-ago "mythological" ancient era it suddenly loses credibility. Personally I'm all for exposing the obvious-irrationality of ANY religious belief but i dont know if this forum is the proper place to be having this discussion.

 

Anyway, point of the original post--evangelicanism is annoying, regardless of the sect they represent be it scientology or their sometimes-more-annoying competitors the christians. A guy in a suit carrying a pamphlet and a "holy book" is pretty much the same whether he is from the Church of Scientology or the Church of Latter Day Saints (and they are all annoying).

[Galen Carter-Jeffrey]

http://www.xenu.net/

 

Read that and then tell me if its the same thing as the "real" religions. These people are destructive and far worse than christians, jews, muslims etc...

 

At least the 10 commandments are something that even non-christains live their life by. Generally even if your not christian there are alot of great things in the bible, love thy neighbor, give to the poor, etc... Scientologists believe that modern medicine is a farce. Tom Cruise said he could cure any psychological disorder by himself without medication.

[dd3stp233]

Scientology isn't legally a religion in many countries due to the way they operate, more as a money making corparation then a religion. People are bound to be skeptical of a "religion" that's only about 50 years old unlike most of the major ones that are hundreds or thousands of years old.

[John King]

Hello everyone,

 

To be fair, I think I first ought to state my own belief system, basically I am a Christian, or perhaps more accurate 'Christianised' person, brought up in a predominantly Christianised society. Anyhoo, I find this statement by Mike Kaminski very interesting:

 

Scientology is based on contemporary superstition and not some long-ago "mythological" ancient era

 

Really it was inevitable. Decades upon decades before L. Ron Hubbard concieved of his 'new' belief system, scientist were furiously competing with religionists over dominion as the official 'preisthood' of mankind. The late Victorian era was really the escalating point of the battle with the likes of Darwin, Thomas Huxley (uncle to Aldous Huxley of "Brave New World" fame), H.G. Wells and a myriad of others advancing the 'truth of (their version) of science' over the 'ignorance of religion'. It was just bound to happen that sooner or later someone from the 'scientific' side would stand up and more directly challenge the dominance of the 'Old Guard'.

 

i dont know if this forum is the proper place to be having this discussion.

 

Probably not, but I don't mean to try and play the role of moderator here. But really I get my best ideas from interesting discussions like these. So if they allow us, I might post some interesting thoughts on the beliefs of those 'long-ago "mythological" ancient' aras. Best regards to all, J. M. King

[Mike Kaminski]

I dont think anyone can try to seriously claim that Scientology is more destructive than christianity. I mean when scientology is resposible for the systematic execution and torture of countless thousands plus many terrible, terrible wars I'll reconsider your statement. I mean the Inquisition, the Crusades--hello?? Ring a bell anyone? As for moneymaking, i think you are seriously naive if you think the church isnt designed to maximize profit. Their entire history is one of coinage and bloodshed. The actual figures have been supressed but the startliung figure is that the church brings in billions of dollars each year. If you think about it, Scientology is really the most harmless religion ever seen--hardly anyone even takes it seriously, they are like the clowns of the religious world.

 

Really there is absolutely no difference at all between scientology and, say, christianity (sorry to keep singling out you guys, you just happen to be the most prominent group :P ), except that the man-made roots of scientology are easy to trace since its founder lived only a few decades ago and that he was a respected writer of imaginative fiction.

[Galen Carter-Jeffrey]

I dont think anyone can try to seriously claim that Scientology is more destructive than christianity. I mean when scientology is resposible for the systematic execution and torture of countless thousands plus many terrible, terrible wars I'll reconsider your statement. I mean the Inquisition, the Crusades--hello?? Ring a bell anyone? As for moneymaking, i think you are seriously naive if you think the church isnt designed to maximize profit. Their entire history is one of coinage and bloodshed. The actual figures have been supressed but the startliung figure is that the church brings in billions of dollars each year. If you think about it, Scientology is really the most harmless religion ever seen--hardly anyone even takes it seriously, they are like the clowns of the religious world.

 

Really there is absolutely no difference at all between scientology and, say, christianity (sorry to keep singling out you guys, you just happen to be the most prominent group :P ), except that the man-made roots of scientology are easy to trace since its founder lived only a few decades ago and that he was a respected writer of imaginative fiction.

 

www.xenu.net

 

read it

 

As for christianity being just as bad, the only times christianty has been horrible is when a leader has abused its powers and taken christiany out of context. If you think about it, the inquisition doesnt follow "love thy neighbor" Scientology flat out says that chemical imbalances in the brain do not exist. They lie and they know it.

 

For the most part Christianity tries to help people.

 

REad that link and tread carefully around scientologists.

Edited May 9, 2006 by galeninjapan

[K Borowski]

Scientology isn't legally a religion in many countries due to the way they operate, more as a money making corparation then a religion. People are bound to be skeptical of a "religion" that's only about 50 years old unlike most of the major ones that are hundreds or thousands of years old.

 

The true personas of Jesus Christ, the Buddha, Muhammad, and co. might have been obscured somewhat by the passage of time, but I'm pretty sure they weren't in it for the money. . .

 

I am very wary of the Mormons too. Essentially they believe that Jesus Christ (more accurately a tribe of early Christians) discovered America. They also endorsed polygamy at a time, and currently have a similarly massive tithe. Their religion is also of the sinigular distinction to be run by a "president". To give you an example of how ridiculously large the Mormon tithe is, my friends father's friend (both of whom work for the Eastman Kodak company) both work in the engineering sector. My friend's father works on x-ray emulsions. I'm not sure if his friend works in that sector or a different one. He has a large family (5 or 6 kids), but I'm assuming he's making at least 80-90K plus in a year being an engineer. Now that is not easy living, but it's doable. However, supposedly, the Mormon Church requires he give them a certain percentage of his income. This is such a drain on him financially (I bellieve it is more than 10%), that he has to work at a *toy store* part time to pay off the difference. I'm not sure what kind of loving God would require that sort of financial contribution :rolleyes: As for my religious background, Roman Catholic, I seem to recall a certain Bible passage where Jesus threw the moneychangers OUT of the temple, with a whip.

 

Regards.

 

~Karl Borowski

 

Sorry but I can't resist one more remark: What kind of religion is it whose "service collections" take the form of those of a film union?

[Mike Kaminski]

The excuse "anyone who uses christianity for bad purposes ie the crusades is not a true christian" is a huge cop out. The Bible clearly advocates the slaughter of "heathens" and portrays its heroic warlord leader Moses as cutting apart heathen babies and allowing his followers to take the virgin girls of enemy towns as trophies. Theres a reason why the clergy of the midieval times were able to use the bible to promote bloodshed and its because it is commanded in the bible, the existance of passages promoting harmony nonwithstanding. Although Scientology promotes several harmful and emotionally manipulative practices this is not unique to it at all, nor is its misunderstanding of science, which is a natural by product of belief in the supernatural. I mean i dont really need to get into creationism, geo-centric universes or flat-earths, and i shoudl remind you that there are societies which still believe in all of those things because the Bible explicitly states such things.

 

So again, not to be picking on christians here, but there is nothing at all different about scientology and those who loath that religion should take a look at the fundamentals of their own (and any religion for that matter).

[Galen Carter-Jeffrey]

What sciontologists believe here.

[James Steven Beverly]

Which is exactly in line with the idea that Mike Kaminski puts forward, "The only difference between a cult and a religion is numbers."

 

 

...and the number of guns they have in their compond. :blink: