Canon 1014 XLS or a Beaulieu?

[Brian Rose]

I know this is an age old topic, but I'm looking at getting a nice super 8 camera. Everything I've read thus far is divided between the Canon 1014 XLS and the Beaulieu line. Which would you recommend? What kind of Beaulieu? I'm not too familiar with the various makes and their pros and cons. Thanks!

Brian Rose

[Stuart McCammon]

I know this is an age old topic, but I'm looking at getting a nice super 8 camera. Everything I've read thus far is divided between the Canon 1014 XLS and the Beaulieu line. Which would you recommend? What kind of Beaulieu? I'm not too familiar with the various makes and their pros and cons. Thanks!

Brian Rose

 

This is a nice page with some real-world experience to share on that topic:

 

http://www.city-net.com/~fodder/s8mm/camtest.html

 

That said, I went and bought a Canon 1014E - its your dime pal)

[A.Oliver]

Hi, 1014xls is a great run and gun camera, optics are good in sunny weather, image goes soft in low light, never managed to get any sharp footage from my 1014xls in grubby f1.4-f3.5 lite. I have owned 3 canon 1014xls over the years along with my rarely used 814xls, all were/are soft in low lite. Canon is a reliable camera, auto exp is good. Beaulieu 4008 range of cameras have a 1/87th sec shutter at 24fps, imo the images looked to stroby, prefer the 6008 and 7008 range instead. Providing you get a beaulieu that lens is properly adjusted/set up to the camera body, you will get much sharper images, especially in low lite compared with the canon. Best lenses for the 6008/7008 are 6-70, 6-66 and 6-80, cannot comment on the 6-90. The 6-66 is said to be the sharpest zoom made for the super 8 format. Angeniuex 6-80 is an amazing peice of glass, aperature is measured in T stops. Dont overlook the 5008 range of cameras, these often go for less cash than the 6008/7008. I recommend beaulieu 5008,6008,7008 and not the 1014xls

[Guest santo]

Two very different cameras and philosophies at play. The home movie maker and delusional person who doesn't know any better versus the serious filmmaker who wants complete control over their filmmaking and recognizes that manual everything and professional design is how real filmmaking is done. The former is the choice for home movie makers and amateurs, the latter is the choice for artists and commercial filmmakers. Canon or Beaulieu? Depends on what you are and how you are approaching these things and how serious you take super 8.

[Brian Rose]

"Depends on what you are and how you are approaching these things and how serious you take super 8"

 

You make an excellent point. Let me put it this way: I have previous experience with Super 8, but I want a better camera to use for an upcoming class on Super 8. I expect most of my classmates to be unfamiliar with film in general. My goal is to blow their films out of the water. I want to produce the sharpest, steadiest picture, with the most amount of control over quality. So, you would then suggest the Beaulieau, I take it? Which model would you recommend? It is my understanding that these cameras have some battery issues...

[Matt Pacini]

My vote would go to the Canon.

[Rachel Oliver]

"Depends on what you are and how you are approaching these things and how serious you take super 8"

 

I want to produce the sharpest, steadiest picture, with the most amount of control over quality.

 

Hi;

 

you should also check out the Leicina Special, probably the steadiest and sharpest images in S8 with fantastic control....

 

Olly

[A.Oliver]

Hi, i agree with Olly, sharpest and steadiest footage, leicina special with 10mm macro cinegon lens, though current reversal colour reversal stocks excluding fuji 50, aint the greatest stocks in the world to blow your fellow colleages away with.( 64t is grainy may t/k ok but crap for projecting, 100d is grain free but not as sharp as the old k40). Finding a leicina may prove difficult, especially in mint condition. My vote is still a beaulieu, look for one with the 6-80 lens, get it serviced. Forget the 1014xls.

Edited May 9, 2006 by k25rip

[Stuart McCammon]

the serious filmmaker who wants complete control over their filmmaking and recognizes that manual everything and professional design is how real filmmaking is done.

Actually, the serious filmmaker uses a blimped Super 35 camera with dual-pin registration and shoots through Zeiss primes, an Angieneux 10-1 and ground glass filters lol)

 

However, if you like the "run what you brung" aspect of Super 8, it seems like an interesting challenge to see how good of an image you can squeeze out of a thrift store camera - that's why I am doing it, anyway.

 

YMMV)

[S8 Booster]

santo knows nothing about cams n filmmasking and definately noit the superior specs n superior performance of the canons.

 

first he was into the zeisses and when they worked poop he turned to lecinas (read toys) and when they didnt pay off he - due to my recommendations turn to the somewhat beteer like beaulieus - except for the poop availble nunderdog to canon lenses to whats your next retreatment el-insano?

[Alessandro Machi]

I tend to believe the Canon's are spectacular.

 

I rarely get to shoot with a Canon because I do a lot of Time-exposure which the canon does not do. I've seen some ultra sharp over the years that was shot by others, however it was probably shot around f 5.6 or higher, mostl likely with the regular shutter setting versus the low light shutter setting. The Canon low light shutter setting could make the image look "softer" if the shot is either handheld or there if there is motion in the shot. I guess the real test would be to do a tripod mounted, regular shutter test, not the 220 degree shutter, in lower light, and see if the image is soft like some claim.

 

At this point in time I'm of the opinion that even if the Canon is soft on the lower end of the f-stop scale that anything higher than an f 2.8 should be sharp, but that's just speculation and I would like to find out for myself.

[Guest santo]

santo knows nothing about cams n filmmasking and definately noit the superior specs n superior performance of the canons.

 

first he was into the zeisses and when they worked poop he turned to lecinas (read toys) and when they didnt pay off he - due to my recommendations turn to the somewhat beteer like beaulieus - except for the poop availble nunderdog to canon lenses to whats your next retreatment el-insano?

 

Well, the question was between Beaulieu and Canon. Obviously the Leicina Special is the ultimate super 8 camera, pretty much without competition except for the Beaulieu 7008 maybe, but that was not what was asked.

 

Fantastic post as always, Booster. Reminds me to pick up some good Vodka today. This Norwegian Vikingfjord looks darn good. I usually stick to ice cold Stolichnaya when I do enjoy some, but obviously there's some good stuff coming from Norway. Perfect idea for a rainy day here! Cheers!

[Chris Graham]

the Canon 1014 XLS is a great camera for what it is, but it's a fixed toy for most cinematographers, meaning too limited. If it weren't for the fixed lens or cartridge capacity the Canon would win hands down, but yeah Beaulieu and Leicina are the top ones to be honest. depends on what type of work you're doing. more flexibility and style of choice with changeable lenses. just my 2 cents

[nathan coombs]

Lets not forget that the Beaulieus and Lecicinas look cool and make you feel proud. The Canons look like retro toys in comparison.

 

...or alternatively buy a Beaulieu R16 and you have a fantastic looking camera, with all the features of a top-end super-8 cam, but with 16mm quality.

[Alessandro Machi]

the Canon 1014 XLS is a great camera for what it is, but it's a fixed toy for most cinematographers, meaning too limited. If it weren't for the fixed lens or cartridge capacity the Canon would win hands down, but yeah Beaulieu and Leicina are the top ones to be honest. depends on what type of work you're doing. more flexibility and style of choice with changeable lenses. just my 2 cents

 

Except that most of the times the situations one finds themself in doesn't require a lens change nor is it realistic that an actual lens change could be done as easily as one thinks. Crews are usually so small and super-8 cameras are so portable that it is easier to just end up far away from the original staging area.

 

The canon can be accessorized with a wide angle attachment AND frankly the new wave of video 2x and 3x extenders may prove to be a gold mine for the low cost filmmaker interested in having amped up zoom capabilities.

 

If there is a weak link, perhaps a 6mm prime on a beaulieu might be a very nice way to go, but the 1014XLS does have a 6.5 on the wide side. I have heard that as time goes on not all Canon camera lenses hold up equally as well because of the glue that was used on key components in the lens design.

 

By the way, I love the way the Canon's look, a 25 year old camera with a finish on it that still looks like the day it was made is not that retro.

[Maulubekotofa]

go for cannon so when super 8 stops being a format you can sell it and move up to 16mm beauxlew is a waste in the small format becos of film type cancellations

[dustwaterwindfire]

I dont know, when I hear these kind of discussions I tend to think that the point is moot. I am brand spanking new to film. But I am not new to art. I have been artist/musician for 20 years and in the music business 10plus. if there is one thing that I have learned is that the tool has little (relatively speaking) to do with the final outcome. I am all for the best most perfect tool but lets not forget what drives the art. my favorite record was recorded in 1936, way before multi-track and 2 inch tape and protools and anything that would distinguish a "pro" user from "novice". I guess what I am getting at is pick a tool and make art, in the end you have what you have. learn it master it, if you can make a masterpiece with junk then you can make one with anything. canon, Beauleiu, Leicina they all take cood enough pictures to make good art.

[A.Oliver]

True, but you need a camera that wont produce soft and possibly unusable pictures when the light levels are low, the canon will go soft in low lite.

Edited May 16, 2006 by k25rip

[Robert Hughes]

When light levels are low, don't waste your film - shoot video.

 

In bright light, any camera will do.

 

I own a 4008. Someday I hope to have enough money to get it working. Meanwhile I use a Nikon R8 in bright light or a Bauer 715XL for its great 6-90 Angenieux lens.

[Alessandro Machi]

When light levels are low, don't waste your film - shoot video.

 

In bright light, any camera will do.

 

I own a 4008. Someday I hope to have enough money to get it working. Meanwhile I use a Nikon R8 in bright light or a Bauer 715XL for its great 6-90 Angenieux lens.

 

Film offers a myriad of approaches in lower light.

 

If you want to figure it out, you can, or you can be take the simple approach and shoot video.

 

Without knowing your script I can't tell you the way I would do it but low light is not necessarily a deal breaker when it comes to shooting Super-8.

[S8 Booster]

“You can always count on Americans to do the right thing - after they've tried everything else.”

 

youll gonna end up with a canon in the end santos....

 

even though you canadian is....

Edited May 19, 2006 by S8 Booster

[Colton Davie]

How low is low light? Would a 500W broad 10 ft away be bright enough as a key?

[vincent65]

I know this is an age old topic, but I'm looking at getting a nice super 8 camera. Everything I've read thus far is divided between the Canon 1014 XLS and the Beaulieu line. Which would you recommend? What kind of Beaulieu? I'm not too familiar with the various makes and their pros and cons. Thanks!

Brian Rose

 

I haven't used the canon but I recently shot a super 8 vs 16mm vs s16mm data test on the Beaulieu 7008 for Eastman Kodak. I was very impressed. There is some sample footage of it on my web site. Take a look at www.philrosefilms.com

 

John Vincent

[Kitao Sakurai]

I recently purchased a canon over a Beaulieu purely for functional reasons. I'm about to go into production on a doc, and I'm approaching the shooting of it in a partially run and gun/film collage style and partially in a traditional, old-skool, film-doc style. I'll also be shooting super 16 and standard 16. I did some tests with the Canon, and I was not only utterly blown away with the stunning quality of the image, but with the ease of use. I'm sure that a beaulieu could get me equally nice images, but for the kind of camera I need (gotta be able to shoot sync sound at 24fps) the canon feels more run-and-gunnable. In terms of image quality, IMHO, the main factor (besides good shooting, of course) is how you get the film onto tape (if you want it to live on tape, that is). From what I've seen, if you can afford a really decent TRANSFER of the film using an actual telecine with a super 8 gate and a competent colorist, Beaulieus and Canons can both look utterly mindblowingly fantastic. For me, I made a choice based not on which camera might have a minute edge in terms of softness in low light, but on wether or not I could whip the camera out and grab something, as opposed to futz with this battery and cable and metering it and etc etc... If I were working in a different shooting style I might choose the Beraulieu. I think the answer is that there is no "this camera is concretely better" answer. If you have the resources to properly transfer your film and put it through a workflow that will preserve the raw, beautiful quality inherent in super 8, both cameras can be really great.

 

 

I'm pretty sure Guy Madden used all Canon super 8 cameras on his newest feature...

[A.Oliver]

Hi, filmed a wedding couple of weeks back, due to grim f1.4-2.8 lighting/typical uk weather had no choice but to opt for the 7008. This was the first time i used a beaulieu at a wedding, images sharpness was excellent, did not acheive as much footage in the can as i would have liked. Canon imo is king of the run and gun cameras, with the best auto iris. If the weather had been better then the canon 814xls would of been used. My 814 goes completely out of focus when used wide open. Canon imo is also easier to hand hold compared to the beaulieu.