Lowel lights

[Filip Plesha]

Ok, now I need to ask you videographers and video amateurs out there something (because I assume these lights are your teritory)..

 

I'm planing to add a little compact cheap light to my light gear for photography, and I want

a semi-soft-ish floodlight, like Lowel Tota-light up to 1K, but I'm sort of confused about the models Lowel is offering.

 

I've already narowed by choice to two models: V-light and Tota-light, simply because I can get a 500W bulb for it in any local market for a candy-bar price.

And another reason is that I already have something similar and I love the glow I get with that shape of bulb and reflector, and I am getting really anoyed with the open faces I'm using, because they lack that glow.

 

So, did anyone use any of these two lights?

 

What's the difference (at the same wattage, of say 500W) between these two (Tota and V) ?

 

thanks

[Bob Hayes]

I own two tota lights and they have become great work horses. Currently I keep the 2 totas, gel frames, umbrellas, a Pepper, and some extension cords in an old tripod bag. When I need to run out and do a quick small shoot it is always ready.

[Tom Bays]

You don't like the umbrellas?

[Filip Plesha]

You don't like the umbrellas?

 

are you asking me or bob?

[Tom Bays]

are you asking me or bob?

 

You...it must have been a simultaneous post.

[Filip Plesha]

You...it must have been a simultaneous post.

 

I find them to be such an ugly sight on any kind of set, for soft light I use home-made white sheet reflector panels or whatever they are called.

Easy to carry around, hold in hands, or attach to something.

[Tom Bays]

I see what you are saying...The is it raining jokes get old. I just joke and tell people it takes years to learn how to illuminate like this. :)

[Tom Bays]

Lowell

 

This is their site...it explains it pretty well. I personally try to use different light stands. Tota stands are for crap. Make sure you extend them all the way (whenever possible).

Edited June 20, 2006 by Kemper

[Sam Wells]

I like the Lowel Rifa (the bargain Chimera), but that may be softer than you want.

 

-Sam

[Bob Hayes]

Haskell Wexler lit a lot of Blaze with large umbrellas not Lowell style. There are much larger and softer sources then umbrellas. I own em and use them. But sometimes ease and speed outweight the quality of a large bounce, a Chimera, or a Large soft frame.

[Michael Nash]

Haskell Wexler lit a lot of Blaze with large umbrellas not Lowell style. There are much larger and softer sources then umbrellas. I own em and use them. But sometimes ease and speed outweight the quality of a large bounce, a Chimera, or a Large soft frame.

 

I'm with Bob on this one. I use Lowel umbrellas quite a bit as they are quick, lightweight and convenient. Sure, the size of the source only amounts to approx. 24" diameter, but sometimes you can "gang up" two of them side-by-side for a softer effect. And the softness is relative to distance -- as a key light for talking heads they're great; to illuminate a larger set they're a drop in the bucket. A larger umbrella will naturally give a softer quality of light.

 

I also use Lowels on squeezers, and balance the levels by eye. When a light that isn't quite soft enough is toned down and blended more with the rest of the lighting, the contrast of the shadow is diminished and doesn't look as "hard" as a result. Lowel Omni's come with a snap-on "scrim" (although not a proper scrim set) that can let you knock down the output without changing the color temperature like you get with squeezers.

[Adam Frisch FSF]

I like the Lowel Rifa (the bargain Chimera), but that may be softer than you want.

 

-Sam

 

Rifa's rule the earth. Great lights.

[Dan Salzmann]

Lowell Omni's are more flexible than Totas which heat up incredibly and are hard to control.

Umbrellas can be very handy when and if you don't have the grip gear available to support diffusion frames.

Sure wish sometimes that lower wattage bulbs were available.

5218 is so amazing that smaller and smaller wattages are needed.

[Josh Bass]

You can use a tota with Chimeras.

[Filip Plesha]

Lowell Omni's are more flexible than Totas which heat up incredibly and are hard to control.

Umbrellas can be very handy when and if you don't have the grip gear available to support diffusion frames.

Sure wish sometimes that lower wattage bulbs were available.

5218 is so amazing that smaller and smaller wattages are needed.

 

 

Getting enough light is a nightmare for me, so I never shoot without a tripod, and I always end up using very long exposures, so I've sort of given up on trying to get a decent level of light, and now I'm going for smaller, more compact lights instead.

 

I don't shoot on films faster than 100ISO, usually it's Ektachrome 64 for still life, portraits and such..

 

The reason I can't get enough light is:

 

1. I usually start with a 1K key and go from there

2. I have to cut it down by more than a stop by using a CTB full blue gel for conversion to daylight

3. I use a 64 ISO film

4. If I use any kind of difussion its much worse, or god forbid using bounced light

5. I usually don't open up more than f8

 

All that leaves me with very long exposures, which is a problem when shooting people,

plus Ektachrome 64 has reciprocity issues from 1 sec on, it goes slightly cyanish and loses some speed.

 

 

For getting adequate level of lights using those apertures and that kind of film, plus difussion and gels, I'd probably have to start with something like 8K, which is ridiculous

[Tom Bays]

I was on a shoot where a 1k tota was turned on without opening the flaps. The light exploded and pretty much sent pieces of incredibly hot metal everywhere. By some grace, no one was standing there. Pieces of metal were melted into the floor. The only good to come out of it was that we were shooting a FLOORING business. :blink:

 

I just frigging cringe thinking about what would have happened if that hit someone.

[Josh Bass]

Didn't it have the scrim on it? that's kinda supposed to as a "protector of flesh from flaming light fragments", isn't it?

[Filip Plesha]

Those long halogen bulbs tend to blow up sometimes, but I've never heard them taking the lamp with them..

 

I've never really been able to picture my own death, but this feels like it, maybe one day I'll die in a tota-explosion. :unsure:

 

Don't they have some kind of fuse in them?

 

My lights turn off automatically when they overheat, like in case of closed barndoors

[Michael Collier]

No lowell I know of has a heat cut-off or fuse. They are straight wired to the juice. We used to have some of the round 'scrims' built for the omnis, we bent those in two places to make a wrap around grill, but after a little bit of use they would bend and it would be difficult to mount them onto the tota. I have dropped using totas all together. In my head I avoid them unless there is no other solution that would work. They have way too much spill, get way too hot and are very hard to controll (any they explode? maybe thats why they have so many warnings on them about turning on without opening the doors, I myself have turned on totas like that, not for long, but someone in our shop did. We have a tota that has completley melted through the reflector and warped the whole unit, though it didnt explode)

 

Sounds like the way you shoot, you need to look at HMIs or Kino-Flos. Both are expensive, but you need daylight at 64asa at an f8? Seems like a lot of light. I would recomend you look at changing something in your shooting, at least for people. What are your stills for? Are they blown up to rediculous sizes, or are you shooting an 8x10? I can't figure out why you need an f8 for people (a typical wide lens you would shoot a portrait on should have plenty of DOF to cover their face) and as far as the speed, it seems like the boost in sharpness and lack of grain would be marganilized by the softening caused by subject movement.

 

Other than that can you get a tungsten based film? This would get you another stop or two of light (if your a photoshop guy, maybe you wouldnt mind shooting uncorrected and doing some color correction?)

[Josh Bass]

I think the totas actually come with their own scrim. I have two, and they both have scrims that are shaped around the light.

[Tom Bays]

They do. I didn't do the light and there wasn't a scrim on it.

 

I've used them for years and I think it was a freak thing, BUT it did happen. I don't know if that scrim would have stayed on.

 

They are good lights if you want some illumination in a room, but want to avoid hard light. (though I have shot them thru some blinds to get a pattern on a wall without the umbrella). Also, if you can keep the shadow out of the shot (distance and height...yikes) you can use them without umbrellas...i guess. They can be used in interview situation as well if you are on the move. Just be careful of the lightstand breaking and hitting you on the head. Other probs that can happen is that the plug into the light can get loose.

 

I hope I'm not scaring you away too much because they are very useful...just use it as it tells you. Don't take too many libertys. One day you might get burned.

[Josh Bass]

I think, in the right environment (small room, or talking head interview situation), they're good for boosting the overall ambience in the room, via bouncing off the ceiling or something similar. You'd need a dimmer or some way to control the output, though.

[Filip Plesha]

No lowell I know of has a heat cut-off or fuse. They are straight wired to the juice. We used to have some of the round 'scrims' built for the omnis, we bent those in two places to make a wrap around grill, but after a little bit of use they would bend and it would be difficult to mount them onto the tota. I have dropped using totas all together. In my head I avoid them unless there is no other solution that would work. They have way too much spill, get way too hot and are very hard to controll (any they explode? maybe thats why they have so many warnings on them about turning on without opening the doors, I myself have turned on totas like that, not for long, but someone in our shop did. We have a tota that has completley melted through the reflector and warped the whole unit, though it didnt explode)

 

Sounds like the way you shoot, you need to look at HMIs or Kino-Flos. Both are expensive, but you need daylight at 64asa at an f8? Seems like a lot of light. I would recomend you look at changing something in your shooting, at least for people. What are your stills for? Are they blown up to rediculous sizes, or are you shooting an 8x10? I can't figure out why you need an f8 for people (a typical wide lens you would shoot a portrait on should have plenty of DOF to cover their face) and as far as the speed, it seems like the boost in sharpness and lack of grain would be marganilized by the softening caused by subject movement.

 

Other than that can you get a tungsten based film? This would get you another stop or two of light (if your a photoshop guy, maybe you wouldnt mind shooting uncorrected and doing some color correction?)

 

Yea, I know I'm a tough case

 

Here are some explanations:

 

I want f8, because in still life I often require multiple objects to be in focus, and I'm shooting MF now, so I need some extra depth of field. Plus the focusing screen makes it a pain to focus for me, much harder IMO than with a 35mm viewfinder.

 

Ok, the slow film. Well, this is where I COULD compromise, because Ektachrome 64 is such an old film (1976) that its grain could me matched with Ektachrome E200, but I just like EPR for its characteristics, it's a classic.

 

Why not tungsten film? I did use it in the past (Kodak EPY) , but decided that It's much easier for me to use daylight film for all, so I can use the film I life for outdoor and indoor stuff and don't have to stock up two kinds of films.

 

Why not HMI?

Well I don't really have money for that. If I did have money, I wouldn't be looking at Tota, now would I ?

I'm not a full time pro, more like a seasoned one, if there is such a thing.

 

all this would be solved by using strobes I guess, but I like the simplicity of hotlights

[Alan Duckworth]

Filip, you'll be better off with a good pair of studio-style strobes. The built-in modelling lights will give you continuous light for setups, without the heat and energy use of the "hotlights". And, you'll probably have somewhere around the equivalent of 5k per head - I can easily shoot still-lifes at f22 on 100 speed film with mine. BTW, I don't disagree at all with your film choice, slow speed film has a "look" that goes beyond simple lack of grain. But I am puzzelled that you find the medium format camera harder to focus than a 35. What are you using?

 

And strobes work great for stop-motion animation too!

[Filip Plesha]

Filip, you'll be better off with a good pair of studio-style strobes. The built-in modelling lights will give you continuous light for setups, without the heat and energy use of the "hotlights". And, you'll probably have somewhere around the equivalent of 5k per head - I can easily shoot still-lifes at f22 on 100 speed film with mine. BTW, I don't disagree at all with your film choice, slow speed film has a "look" that goes beyond simple lack of grain. But I am puzzelled that you find the medium format camera harder to focus than a 35. What are you using?

 

And strobes work great for stop-motion animation too!

 

 

I am considering getting a strobe or two with a compact power source for outside stuff (sync effects and such), but I just can't affoard right now to trash all my tungsten gear and replace it with strobes.

I think I'd have to spend like $2000 to do such a thing, and that's a lot of money for lowering the temperature of the room, I'd rather install air-conditioning :)

A cheapest strobe unit costs 3 times more than a cheapest tungsten unit.

It's not that converting to strobes doesn't make sense, it does, but I have a long list of what I need right now, and for the money I'd spend replacing hotlights I could buy a MF scanner for example which would change a lot more.

 

When it comes to slow film. EPR really doesn't have the edge in grain over modern films of much more speed. As I've said, IMO, it compares with Ektachrome E200 in grain, and considering this is the FIRST E6 film Kodak ever made (and still unchanged from '76 exept for the base) it holds up very well compared to modern films separated from it by 30 years of R&D. In fact it's older than current Kodachrome 64.

Thanks to snobish prepress folks who formed a cult around EPR and look down on other emulsions it still lives today.

As you have well said, there is something great about these slow films, which are now extinct.

The midtone gradations are smooth, and it gives this great subtle high-quality look, with more realistic colors. Though it does tend to eat up shadows, like all films from 70's seemed to do, negative and reversal, but it also has that smoother look to highlights of films from that time (larger sholder I think).

 

Though I must confess that the new E100G is simply stunning at first sight. It has this high-quality delicate snap that suprizes me every time I get it back from processing.

But it lacks the subtlety of EPR and EPN, because it still belongs to the 90's family of "amplified" E6 films with larger-than-life saturation and enhanced midtone contrast.