Reservation Enquiry

[Rolfe Klement]

I had a brief scan through the forums and on the red website but could not find the answer to

 

What exactly do you get with the Red One reservation?

 

I assume the camera body, a PL Mount, power connectors, the cage (or is that seperate?), a case, a lens cover, a manual, some tools etc

 

Can someone post the link and or inform me

 

Secondly if I pay the deposit do I get the deposit back with interest (CA State) or with no interest back - not that 5% PA would be a huge sum :)

 

apologies if this has been posted before

 

thanks

 

Rolfe

[Gary McClurg]

I had a brief scan through the forums and on the red website but could not find the answer to

 

What exactly do you get with the Red One reservation?

 

I assume the camera body, a PL Mount, power connectors, the cage (or is that seperate?), a case, a lens cover, a manual, some tools etc

 

Can someone post the link and or inform me

 

Secondly if I pay the deposit do I get the deposit back with interest (CA State) or with no interest back - not that 5% PA would be a huge sum :)

 

apologies if this has been posted before

 

thanks

 

Rolfe

 

As far as I know you get the body... mount of your choice.... a 720p lcd screen is all you get for the $17,500

 

I do not believe they'll give you interest on your money... actually I think they'll say hey your getting the newest greatest toy so that worth the wait...

 

The lens are

300mm goes for $4,995

18-85mm zoom goes for $9,500

 

The cage, viewfinder and other goodies... you have to pay more money for...

 

An I believe the recording device is going to be a grand...

 

here's a link to the website...

 

www.red.com

 

oops didn't catch it till I read your post again that you've been to the website...

Edited September 28, 2006 by Gary McClurg

[Chris Kenny]

Actually, the resolution of the display isn't known. 720p was that resolution given for the EVF at IBC. The EVF won't be included, but RED has said if it's done at the same time as the camera, you might be able to get an EVF instead of the display for a little more money.

 

Also, RED has pointed out a number of times that the technology to be used for the display hasn't been decided on yet. Might be LCD, might be something else (presumably OLED).

 

And it's still not clear if you'll be able to select what mount you want, or if PL mount will come standard, and you'll have to buy anything else separately. (Mounts are intended to be interchangeable by the end user.)

 

We've got a reservation, and I can confirm, no interest on deposits.

Edited September 29, 2006 by Chris Kenny

[Stephen Williams]

Hi Rolfe,

 

From the RED webiste:-

 

"Red makes no promises or representation as to the delivery date of the camera or final specifications. Deposit holder's only remedy under this agreement is the return of customer's deposit without interest"

 

http://red.com/reservations.htm

 

 

Stephen

 

 

I had a brief scan through the forums and on the red website but could not find the answer to

 

What exactly do you get with the Red One reservation?

 

I assume the camera body, a PL Mount, power connectors, the cage (or is that seperate?), a case, a lens cover, a manual, some tools etc

 

Can someone post the link and or inform me

 

Secondly if I pay the deposit do I get the deposit back with interest (CA State) or with no interest back - not that 5% PA would be a huge sum :)

 

apologies if this has been posted before

 

thanks

 

Rolfe

[Rolfe Klement]

Thanks for the replies

 

Does the reservation state exactly what you will recieve?

Does it state a warrenty on the product, support SLA's or any other data?

Does anyone have any more info?

 

I assume it would be similar to an Arri Purchase - you get some manuals, tools, case etc

 

thanks

 

Rolfe

[Stephen Williams]

I assume it would be similar to an Arri Purchase - you get some manuals, tools, case et

 

Rolfe

 

Rolfe,

 

FWIW Arri charges extra for a case.

 

Stephen

[Chris Kenny]

The reservation doesn't go into much detail, really. The current understanding is that the $17,500 will include a camera body (with sensor and PL mount) and an LCD/OLED/whatever display that can be mounted on the camera. It's explicit that it doesn't include the cage, the rail system, a lens, or any of the various recording options. RED-DRIVE, which is expected to be a 2.5" hard drive system that can be mounted on the camera for recording, is expected to be available for "under $1000" for an 80 GB version. Pricing for other recording options (the RAID and flash-based systems) hasn't been announced. I haven't seen anything said about batteries, power adaptors, cases, warranties, service plans, manuals, etc.

 

RED is also careful to note that final specifications and release date are subject to change. A reservation does, however, guarantee you will get the $17,500 price, and notes which number camera you'll get.

 

If you're not happy with what RED ultimately announces, you can, of course, give up your spot in the queue and get your money back. Otherwise the $1000 is put toward the price of your camera when you buy. My understanding is you have to buy when your turn comes up, or give up your reservation.

 

RED folks have mentioned in the last few days that the specs are getting close to lock-down, in preparation for building some fully integrated prototypes for testing the December time frame, so things will probably become a lot more clear over the next couple of months.

 

Most of this info has been gleaned by reading posts from RED employes on message boards, so make of that what you will.

[Stephen Williams]

My understanding is you have to buy when your turn comes up, or give up your reservation.

 

Hi,

 

I am very interested in the percentage of reservations that turn into sales! Just curious, however I guess we will never know.

 

Jim for information I am not saying there is anything wrong with your camera or sensor.

 

Stephen

[Robert Hughes]

Good luck to RED on their new offering. But this offer reminds me of IBM's practise in the 1960's of announcing and accepting orders for new computer models months before they were manufactured, soas to stifle client interest in competing offerings. Control Data Corporation took them to court and won a huge settlement, on the order of $100 million. How many potential RED clients are putting money into someone's research project when they could be running their operations with that same cash?

[Gary McClurg]

Good luck to RED on their new offering. But this offer reminds me of IBM's practise in the 1960's of announcing and accepting orders for new computer models months before they were manufactured, soas to stifle client interest in competing offerings. Control Data Corporation took them to court and won a huge settlement, on the order of $100 million. How many potential RED clients are putting money into someone's research project when they could be running their operations with that same cash?

 

To be honest here... I don't think that the people who put down the $1k are funding the research... I think the guy who's building it has enough funds... gee now I'll get into trouble for writing this after I just wrote what I did because the old saying "use someone else's money" just popped into my head... but again they can get that money back so that would cross off that idea...

Edited September 30, 2006 by Gary McClurg

[Brian Drysdale]

Good luck to RED on their new offering. But this offer reminds me of IBM's practise in the 1960's of announcing and accepting orders for new computer models months before they were manufactured, soas to stifle client interest in competing offerings. Control Data Corporation took them to court and won a huge settlement, on the order of $100 million. How many potential RED clients are putting money into someone's research project when they could be running their operations with that same cash?

 

 

I expect RED felt they had to get in early before the opposition arrived at the NAB with a working prototype and they'd be having to play catch up 6 months to a year later, when the RED camera went into production.

 

The R & D on the camera seems to have been well enough funded, without need of the deposits.

[Chris Kenny]

Having a reservation system is useful because it helps RED gauge demand, and provides a fair way to allocate cameras which are likely to be in short supply early on. The $1000 deposit requirement is probably just a way of making sure only people who have a serious intention to buy will reserve a camera.

[Stephen Williams]

The $1000 deposit requirement is probably just a way of making sure only people who have a serious intention to buy will reserve a camera.

 

Hi,

 

As the deposit is fully refundable for any reason, I don't follow what you say.

 

If the deposit was not refundable but an option that could be sold, then that would make an interesting investment IMHO.

 

Stephen

[Chris Kenny]

As the deposit is fully refundable for any reason, I don't follow what you say.

 

It's a far bigger step, psychologically, to put down $1000 than it would be to just fill out a web form to get your name on a list. Even if you can get the money back. I suspect if RED didn't require the deposit, there would be lots of people getting on the list just on the off chance they might want to buy one, or because it's cool in some circles to have a RED number these days, or whatever. People would be much more likely to do it on a whim without serious consideration.

[Stephen Williams]

It's a far bigger step, psychologically, to put down $1000 than it would be to just fill out a web form to get your name on a list. Even if you can get the money back. I suspect if RED didn't require the deposit, there would be lots of people getting on the list just on the off chance they might want to buy one, or because it's cool in some circles to have a RED number these days, or whatever. People would be much more likely to do it on a whim without serious consideration.

 

Hi,

 

If a $1000 is a big step, I don't see how they will be able to afford the final payment, lenses etc.

 

Stephen

[Chris Kenny]

If a $1000 is a big step, I don't see how they will be able to afford the final payment, lenses etc.

 

I said putting down $1000 was a far bigger step psychologically than just sticking one's name on a list. This remains true even if it is not a big step financially. Few individuals and probably even fewer companies will put up $1000 on a whim, with no serious consideration, regardless of how much money they have.

[Stephen Williams]

I said putting down $1000 was a far bigger step psychologically than just sticking one's name on a list. This remains true even if it is not a big step financially. Few individuals and probably even fewer companies will put up $1000 on a whim, with no serious consideration, regardless of how much money they have.

 

Chris,

 

Camera rentals exceed $1000 a day, film, processing & telecine costs many thousands a day. I don't think people who can afford to shoot film today would blink at a $1000 deposit. For Students & DV filmmakers it could be a problem, but they wont be able to afford the system in any case.

 

Out of interest what do you do for a living?

 

Stephen

[Chris Kenny]

Chris,

 

Camera rentals exceed $1000 a day, film, processing & telecine costs many thousands a day. I don't think people who can afford to shoot film today would blink at a $1000 deposit. For Students & DV filmmakers it could be a problem, but they wont be able to afford the system in any case.

 

Out of interest what do you do for a living?

 

Once again, there's a psychological difference between just filling out a form, and actually putting down $1000, that's largely unrelated to the amount of money one has. We obviously disagree on this point, and it's not really worth going back and forth over and over, so let's forget about it.

[Stephen Williams]

Once again, there's a psychological difference between just filling out a form, and actually putting down $1000, that's largely unrelated to the amount of money one has. We obviously disagree on this point, and it's not really worth going back and forth over and over, so let's forget about it.

 

Hi,

 

What job do you do? Your clearly not a working DoP.

 

Stephen

[Chris Kenny]

What job do you do? Your clearly not a working DoP.

 

Why? Because I think people are unlikely to put up $1000 without some consideration, whereas a professional DoP wouldn't have any problem doing so? I frankly think you're being unjust to professional DoPs here!

 

No, I'm not a professional DoP. I'm in the tech industry, and I'm approaching RED from that angle, not from the traditional film production angle. I also run my own business, which means I'm not used to spending large amounts of other people's money, which maybe some people in the traditional production business are.

[Stephen Williams]

Why? Because I think people are unlikely to put up $1000 without some consideration, whereas a professional DoP wouldn't have any problem doing so? I frankly think you're being unjust to professional DoPs here!

 

No, I'm not a professional DoP. I'm in the tech industry, and I'm approaching RED from that angle, not from the traditional film production angle. I also run my own business, which means I'm not used to spending large amounts of other people's money, which maybe some people in the traditional production business are.

 

Hi,

 

With respect $1000 is very little to a working DoP. I own 3 X 35mm camera systems, I am used to spending thousands of my own money on equipment EVERY MONTH. This is not a hobby of mine, its how I earn my living!

 

Stephen

[Gavin Greenwalt]

Camera rentals exceed $1000 a day, film, processing & telecine costs many thousands a day. I don't think people who can afford to shoot film today would blink at a $1000 deposit. For Students & DV filmmakers it could be a problem, but they wont be able to afford the system in any case.

 

I think you just answered your own question. The $1000 deposit might not filter out people who are relatively certain they're going to buy one so much as filter out those who can reasonablly afford to buy one.

 

I'm sure it was a balance: You want your deposit to be large enough that you only get reservations from those who are potential customers without making it a notable financial setback on an unfinished and unproven technology.

 

He seems to have hit a sweet spot: it's very difficult to those who can't afford it. And it's pocket change to those who might be interested but don't want to commit.

 

- Gavin

[Chris Kenny]

With respect $1000 is very little to a working DoP. I own 3 X 35mm camera systems, I am used to spending thousands of my own money on equipment EVERY MONTH. This is not a hobby of mine, its how I earn my living!

 

I spend a fair bit of money on hardware, software, network connectivity, etc. as part of what I do, but I don't even spend $10 without evaluating whether I'm getting a good value. I rather suspect the same is true of anyone who freelances or has their own business. If you don't think that way, you end up broke pretty fast.

 

That's really basically all I was saying: if people have to put down money, even if it's not a financial stretch, they'll evaluate their needs and figure out how likely they are to want the camera and how likely they are to have the cash when it's needed, before they put in a reservation. If they didn't have to put down money, some people would do it for the hell of it, on the off chance they might possibly want one and might possibly be able to come up with the cash, and RED would probably have five times the number of reservations, with most people on the list having no serious intention of buying.

[Stephen Williams]

I spend a fair bit of money on hardware, software, network connectivity, etc. as part of what I do, but I don't even spend $10 without evaluating whether I'm getting a good value. I rather suspect the same is true of anyone who freelances or has their own business. If you don't think that way, you end up broke pretty fast.

 

Hi Chris,

 

I get the feeling you are not a potential customer for a RED camera! A complete working system will cost far more than $17,500.

 

I have a great advantage, I already own PL mount lenses, tripods,matte boxes, follow focus, filters etc. I only have to buy a Red One camera and a recording device all for under $18,500 :D I will have my money back in under 30 days shooting! I love this RED concept!

 

Stephen

[Chris Kenny]

Hi Chris,

 

I get the feeling you are not a potential customer for a RED camera! A complete working system will cost far more than $17,500.

 

I'm more than willing to spend money on a good value, and RED is certainly that. I expect to pay $24-25K for a package based around Nikkor photo lenses (yes, I'm aware of the limitations of photo lenses), and make money with that while waiting for RED's zoom to come out later next year.