Some Rookie Questions

[Jesse Rosato]

Hi everyone! I'm brand new here and to the HD world. I'm still very much wet-behind-the-ears in terms of cinematography. My limited experience in the field is from working with DV (Canon XL-1). My involvement in motion picture production this far has been mostly limited to writing and directing. With that all said, some questions.

 

1. I have been tapped to direct a feature length film for a fellow with some dinero to throw around who wants to get into exec. producing as a hobby (I know, I thought he was crazy at first too, but it turns out he's just a successful young man with some intriguing stories to tell). Originally, we were discussing shooting DV with a very small number of scenes (5 or so) possibly shot on 35. (For effect, not just because.) After watching "Once Upon a Time in Mexico" and listening to Rodriguez' love songs to HD, I thought, "Hey, maybe HD would be great for this project, rather than spending a ton of dough on 35 equipment that I don't have any experience with." Then I found this site and I'm worried that I may have jumped the gun in pitching HD, particularly because I apparently made a good pitch and the financier is now hyped about it and is looking to shoot the whole thing in HD. I will be working with an experienced lighting designer, but it looks like the camera end of the photography equation may be falling into my hands. As someone with a lot of experience with the XL-1 and other mini-DV cameras, would it be completely unreasonable to assume that I could get a decent handle on something like the CineAlta Sony HDW-900 with a couple of days worth of playtime?

 

2. While we have some money, it is a limited amount. I'm getting a little worried about what HD might cost us in post. I have access to a G5 with the Dual 2Ghz processors and Final Cut HD. What kind of costs should I be factoring in to this equation? I'm sure what we will be outputting to is a question, and one that I don't necessarily have an answer to just yet. We want to get the film into one of the bigger festivals. I know it's early in the process to be talking festivals, but it seems like it will affect the output medium, so what output medium would best serve such a purpose?

 

I know this is long, but hopefully it's not too convuluted. Thank you very much for your time. I have been wowed by the caliber of artists that take the time to post on this forum and I am a little bit honored just to be in your "presence", so to speak. Anyways, enough ass-kissing, thanks for any help you can offer.

 

- Jesse Rosato

[David Mullen ASC]

Well, I jumped into a shooting my first HD feature with just a few days of prep, but I had some experience with professional Sony Betacams, which the F900 is designed like. If your background does not include any work with pro video cameras, you may have a harder time learning the camera, although I find consumer cameras actually harder to use...

 

But you have to also note that I had twenty features under my belt as a DP; learning to use the particular camera is only a small part of the equation in terms of shooting a feature.

[Christopher Bell]

While the Varicam is not the most ideal camera for film-outs, its sinergy with Apple's Final Cut Pro HD makes it a elegent solution when budget is limited. The ability to do variable frame rate is unique among established HD cameras, and I find the 4:2:2 color quite good. Check out the Apple and Panasonic web sites for more information.

 

Chris Bell

[Elhanan Matos]

Umm... wow. Thats alot of stuff to learn within a couple of days. My suggestion to you is to go to the rental house which you are planning on renting your camera from and ask them if they know of any good DIT's. With a good DIT you will have someone who understands the camera and the whole workflow, and if you spend enough time in pre production and prep with him you'll learn alot.

 

rather than spending a ton of dough on 35 equipment that I don't have any experience with.

 

35mm equipment is much cheaper than HD equipment, its the film, processing, printing, and editing that will cost you alot.

 

Good Luck.

[Phil Rhodes]

Hi,

 

> 35mm equipment is much cheaper than HD equipment

 

Oh come on, it isn't even nearly cheaper.

 

And on a side note, this is the kind of production which doesn't exist here!

 

Phil

[Jesse Rosato]

Thanks to everyone for your responses. A few things... (I'll go last to first.)

 

And on a side note, this is the kind of production which doesn't exist here!

I'm not quite sure that I follow you Phil.

 

Secondly, when I mentioned spending a ton of dough on 35mm equipment, I wasn't trying to say that HD is a lot cheaper than film. I've found that I could get 35mm equip. for a little bit cheaper than HD. What I was getting at though is that if we were to rent 35mm equip., we'd probably end up spending more money learning the equipment than with HD.

 

Thirdly, Elhanan, DIT is a position I'm not familiar with. Director of Information Technology maybe?

 

Fourthly, David, I don't anticipate taking two days to play with an HD camera and then running out and shooting Road to Perdition without years of previous experience as DoP. I see that in my original post I did a poor job of explaining this. My lighting designer will be taking DoP credits, I'm mainly going to be running camera op (which I prefer to do anyways.) Do you think I'll be able to get a feel for the controls, menu set-ups, etc. in a couple of days?

 

Again thank you guys very much for your help, anymore advice you have would be greatly appreciated.

[David Mullen ASC]

Well, you can can a feel for the menu in a couple of hours, if not minutes. Depends on how much you plan on accessing the menu while you shoot.

[Laurent Andrieux]

Won't you be having a camera assistant on this shooting ?

 

I believe that even most experienced dops and cameraman leave a lot of the menu settings to their assistant, right ? (even though AC and DOP plan things together in prep)

 

For what's about comparing film vs HD, remember you have to suss out the post production costs first...

 

The fact that you don't know how the film is going to be released makes your decision harder to take, actually.

 

I wonder why the dop I mean the person who's gonna sign the photography doesn't take this kind of decision, according to the budget you consider to allow to the image department on this production.

 

I also wonder why he wouldn't then be in charge of the problems you mentionned, like setting the menus for instance... Also, if you would choose 35 consider it's his job to handle it, not yours (the main job is light and camera assisting, then)

 

If he's not aware of all that, why take him as a dop?

 

I think HD has sense only if you have a lot of post that necessarly involve digital effects that would be a pain in the ass or more expensive to make if shot on film.

 

Also, if you plan to sell it to TV, shooting on video could be a good idea, but HD isn't necessary if you don't plan to show it in a theater. Digibeta could be enough

 

If you plan to show it in festivals, theaters... and don't consider HD is necessary (due to budget nor post production) and consider 35 mm is to expensive, then, super 16 is a very good alternative, did you consider that ? You'll save a lot with shooting, film stock, process... and only print on 35, and then have a 35 mm film !

 

On the money side, it could be worth calculating the different versions all the way thru, considering a 35 mm print and compare them.

[David Mullen ASC]

Well, you wouldn't leave the SETTINGS to an assistant just as you wouldn't leave the choice of film stock to the assistant. But you may leave the task of inputting the settings you want to use to the assistant.

 

I usually set the basic settings myself during the camera prep. During the shoot, the assistant (who has written down those settings) will keep an eye on them and make changes I ask for.

 

For example, I did an HD shoot where I used as a base setting the ITU-709 Color Matrix preset. But for greenscreen work I had the assistant turn the matrix off and he always turned it back on when we were done. If I need to switch from 23.98P to 59.94i, for example (like for a post slow-motion effect), the assistant will do that. The assistant will also do the back-focus checks too. He will change the shutter speed for me as well. But these are all tasks that I know how to do as well.

 

The thing to remember is that even though there are fifty pages of menus in the F900, you only may be using ten of them, and most of those only once at the beginning of prep. You have some basic decisions to make about whether to use Detail and at what level, whether to use the Color Matrix, and whether to adjust the basic Gamma, Black Gamma, etc. levels. The thing to remember is that some things can be done in post while others are more permanent -- for example, you can't really get rid of Detail once you shoot with it.

 

What helped me get comfortable with the F900 was when I got to take it home for the weekend before the shoot and also get a copy of the user manual and the maintenance manual from the rental house, and then just go through the camera (it helps to have an HD monitor to look at it.) On my last HD job, I borrowed a paint box during the prep and played around with the look using it and THEN looked at the changes in menu settings that it created and wrote some of those down so I could manually input that look later if I wanted to.

[Mitch Gross]

To the original poster--

 

I plead with you, I beg of you, please, please, please hire an experienced DIrector of Photography. If you really wish to Operate the camera that's fine, as many experienced Directors do this, but what you really need is a DP on the job who's sole job is to deal with these issues in a creative and craftmanlike way while you are busy with things like working with the actors, mood and pacing, and overseeing everything else in the production. Frankly I don't think you should be operating either, as this means you'll be either concentrating too much on the framing to pay proper attention to the performances or you'll be so busy watching the performances that the framing suffers. That and the fact that in HD the Operator is stuck with a lousy little black & white viewfinder instead of a big beautiful color HD monitor--where would you really rather be?

 

I'm not plugging for myself here, but this is similar to a job I was brought in on last summer. A Producer/Cinematographer who worked only for corporate/event clients was hired along with his personal Varicam HD camera package to produce and shoot a feature motion picture. He realized that he had his hands full with other issues and was not experienced in functioning as a DP in the style that narrative motion pictures are generally made, so that's where I came in. We ended up sharing the DP credit which was fine by me, but I'm the guy who worked with the Gaffer designing the lighting, I generally picked the lens and I usually operated the camera while he stayed at the monitor. And this is a highly experienced guy who actually owned the camera and used it himself all the time.

 

DP and Director are two of the toughest jobs on set. Don't try to takle on all that responsibility yourself.

[Elhanan Matos]

DIT is a position I'm not familiar with. Director of Information Technology maybe?

 

A DIT is a Digital Imaging Technician. Here's a good link explaining what a DIT is and does

 

As for the price difference between HD equipment and Film equipment, you can check it out for yourself, call up a rental house that carries both and see what they will quote you. Check out Clairmont Camera. They offer a wide range of Film cameras and HD cameras.

[Kevin Zanit]

HD gear rents for much higher prices than film gear.

 

 

Kevin Zanit

[Jesse Rosato]

Thanks to you all, once again.

 

David, I definitely plan to have such a weekend.

Kevin, I definitely plan to spend said weekend with my lighting designer, and seeing if our two halves can form one semi-whole DP. If not, it looks like it might be time to bring one on board.

 

Thanks again for your hospitality and invaluable advice.