Video uses for a lightmeter

[Josh Bass]

Gentlemen, long time lurker, first time poster.

 

I've been encouraged by a DP friend/mentor/all around great guy to learn the art of using a light meter. Until now, I'd held off, being that I was under the impression that the things cost multi-hundreds of dollars, and now I'm hearing that there are some to be had much, much cheaper, new, that is, with fewer bells and whistles (I'm talking like $40 here).

 

A few things: I have never worked with film, don't know if I ever will (oh the horror the horror, I know, just listen for now and chastise later).

 

I've worked almost exclusively with miniDV, and will likely continue to work in the lower video formats (lower, in this sense, meaning DV, DVCAM/DVCPRO, anything "lower' than HD) for some time. However, the material I've done is not limited to corporate video and weddings. I've done some short films, both my own, and for other directors, and I try to use the best lighting/cinematography techniques I can in those situations, given the available gear (lights/grip) and time.

 

I feel that if I learned to meter, I'd be able to guess things (what wattage of light I need in X situation if it's a wide shot and the light has to be y number of feet away, etc.), and generally be more efficient on set (right now, I basically guess at which fixtures to use, and judge by a calibrated NTSC monitor whether and how to tweak).

 

So, given all this, and given that I'll probably be working with lower end video, using a small light kits (a few fresnels, a tota light or two, a Chimera, some China balls, nothing over 1000 watts) for quite a while to come, what can a light meter do for me?

 

Thanks. (I'm not asking how to use one. I'll figure that out when/if I get the thing).

[David Mullen ASC]

With video, I don't use the meter to set exposure on the camera. I use it to scout locations and determine light levels; I also use it when pre-lighting when I need to balance multiple lights -- for example, if someone moves through different areas of light and dark, even in different rooms, and you want them at the same level when they step into the light.

 

It also helps when you want to light every set to the ideal f-stop.

[Josh Bass]

Thanks. . .the kind of stuff I was looking for. I often hear "don't worry about using a lightmeter for video/your camera IS a (spot) light meter/if you have properly calibrated monitor, then what you see is what you get". And yet, all the pro guys I know, whether working in the video or film medium, seem to use them, so there must be something to it.

 

Do they tend to help your "eye" develop, over time? Seems to me you'd start to be able to recognize certain lighting ratios just by seeing them, after a while, which could be useful.

 

Any recommendations on the ultra cheap meters?

[Carlos M. Icaza]

Josh, like you I am in the minidv world. I shoot mostly miniDV right now and I use a light meter. Not to set exposure for the camera, but for several reasons

 

I use a light meter because

 

1) Discipline. If I get used to it, and used to figuring out the light ratios, and lighting setups, by the time I move to film, I would like it to be part of the discipline, and hopefully, because of the training I would have learn to discern lighting setups and light requirements/ratios.

 

2)Lighting Continuity. Like David's comments, I use it for continuity when moving actors around and or lights when I only have a few of them on set, when I move one light location to another when I need to do a reverse shot or something, I make sure that I keep the light continuity around.

 

3)Re-shoot. I keep a log of the scene's light meter f-stop. In case I need to reshoot. I know what I did for the shot. Suppose you had to go back and re-do a scene and you don't have the lights you normally use, but you pick up a different kit. With my info on what f-stop I metered the scene I can go back and re-shoot just like it originally was so to keep continuity.

 

I have a Sekonic Super Zoom 608c, and been happy with it. It is not cheap, that I can tell you, but if you are a student, or know of a student, they have student discounts and you can search the web for good prices. I can only speak about sekonic cos is the only one I have used. My often collaborating gaffer has a Minolta but don't know to tell you anything about it.

 

Cheers,

 

C.

[Josh Bass]

Thanks! I'm going to go to a local camera shop and see what they have to say about the el cheapo meters. Seems the reason for getting them are several, while the reason for NOT getting one is the non-filminess of myself, and the cost. Hopefully, one of those won't be a factor.

[David Mullen ASC]

I certainly use a meter LESS when shooting in video; I might use it more to light the master but once I have that done, when moving to the coverage I'm more or less tweaking the existing units and since the camera and monitor are already up, I can do a lot of adjusting by eye and by the monitor. Your eye gets used to the light level of the master and since you usually want to shoot at the same stop as the master, it's not hard to set other lights in the correct ballpark. For example, maybe in the wide shot, you keyed the actor with a 2K coming from one side. Maybe for the close up, you bring in a 1K and put it through a diffusion frame. Well, even before you meter it, you can usually see if it looks brighter or darker than the original 2K key did just by eye, especially if the other lights in the room are still the same. So you get a sense of what the lights will get you before you even set them up, especially when you are several days into the shoot using the same lights.

 

I don't meter everything when shooting film either though, just the key light mostly. I only meter lighting ratios when either I know I'll have to recreate it later or I am working at such high light levels that I can't trust my eyes -- for example, if I have an 18K HMI blasting through the window, it can be very hard to judge how many stops under the fill is.

 

My favorite fill light level is basically one where you barely see shadow detail, so I am always knocking it down to a barely perceptible level on my dramas. In lower light levels on faster film (or with HD) I can set the fill by eye (and the monitor with HD) because I pretty much know that almost any light I use for fill will probably add some detail to the shadows.

 

One case in which it can be deceptive though are moonlight scenes, assuming you want shadow detail instead of a black shadow. If you play your moonlight key one and a half stops under, and you know that anything more than 3 1/2 stops under will probably be black in the print, then that means your fill can only be two stops under the key since that is already 1 1/2 stops under. When working on the edge like that in overall underexposure, metering the shadows gets more critical. But in a more normal "lit" interior scene, fill light can usually be set by eye. I'll have a really dim fill light and then switch it on and off to test it -- if I can see the difference, usually the film or video can see the difference too. Like I said, this doesn't work as well in really high light levels though where your eyes aren't used to the level.

 

If you know the approximate ASA of your video camera at 0 db, it's nice to scout a location and take out your meter and get a sense if you'll be able to shoot in that light level at 0 db. I just scouted a large cafeteria space in a high school for an HD shoot and the available light is about a T/2.0 at 320 ASA, so I know it won't take much additional lighting for HD.

[Carlos M. Icaza]

Oh, yes, (Thanks Dave)

 

C). Location scouting. I have used my light meter when I have gone location scouting to check out what is available in practicals and sunglight if merits, I make notes, then adjust my lighting requirements for that scene based on the notes I took. It has certainly helped.

 

Also, Dave, thanks for your feedback.

 

 

 

C.-

[Jason McKelvey]

Another great piece of equipment for any video shoot is a portable waveform monitor. This will tell you acurate information on lighting levels for the whole picture. Set the lighting to the on set monitor, then use a white card in front of the subjects face, facing the key light. Then record the IRE response of the white card. Now, when you change locations or angles, all you have to do is bring the key light up until the white card reaches that same IRE level. You can use a 18% grey card too, but white stands out better. For more advanced cameras, a waveform can help you set knee, setup and white clip levels as well.

 

 

Sincerely,

Jason

[Josh Bass]

I've thought about getting one, but even the cheap ones are expensive. So, if a light meter's a questionable item for me, a waveform monitor is that much more so.

[Greg Gross]

Hello Josh,

Professional Photographer(what ever that means!) for 20 years. I use

Spectra 4a all the time when I shoot video and shoot similar to Carlos.

My work looks very similar to DX100A(don,t let the secret out!) John Fauer

ASC determines ASA when he shoots video and uses lightmeter. I just men-

tion this for your information. Two good books by John Fauer ASC-DVCAM,

Shooting Digital Video. Josh no one is really right or wrong here, photograpers

vary in techniques,style,lighting,technical procedures. I respect Mr. Mullen and

Carlos very much and their input on forum is excellent. This subject will really

draw some attention when ever it is brought up. The good thing is that all of

this input will helpyou to develop your own style,lighting,technical procedures.

John Lynch,Director(I quote)- "If you plan for 100 problems when filming then

101 things will go wrong". Would'nt you know it,my girlfriend just yelled through

the darkroom door- "I never use a lightmeter when I shoot video". Josh I'm not

even going to go there! Happy Shooting!

[Matthew Moore]

All:

 

Please forgive me if I missed this, either in this thread, or in another post (I did some searches and did not find this information), but, what shutter angle setting are you are using when you meter in the video context, given that there is no shutter per se?

 

Humbly,

 

MM

Brooklyn, NY

[Josh Bass]

Should be be either 1/60 (for 29.97 fps, or 30p), or 1/48, if you're using a 24p camera , no? Or one of them purty big numbers (1/500, whatever) if you're going for a "Saving Private Ryan thing" Right? Wrong?

[David Mullen ASC]

Video cameras have electronic shutters. You just set your meter to what you think you are more likely to use. Often it's in the 1/48, 1/50, 1/60 range. For example, I find that the DVX100 is something like 320 ASA at 0 db with a 1/48th shutter. I know in the back of my head that I can gain another stop of exposure by changing the shutter speed to 1/24th. For an interlaced NTSC camera, 1/60th of a second would be shooting with no shutter.

[Greg Gross]

This post is just to demonstrate that photographers have different

styles,lighting,technical procedures with camera. I always shoot in

manual mode at 1/60 based on my ASA of 320 to 400(based on how

I feel about the subject("my photographers eye',why can't I see green

when I look at a fluorescent tube?). I get into a lot of situations with back

light and front light(spot included). I know the following about my camera:

1. Equivalent ASA

2. Combinations of f-stops for 1/60 at ASA 320

to 400 via Spectra 4a metering.

3. Sometimes I have to use my skills as a pho-

tographer when metering is not practical.

4. At times I use Zebra pattern,at times I vary

the shutter(use zebra at 0db gain).

5. I know that with my camera I get 1/2 stop at

3db gain (I rarely use gain) I almost always

shoot at odb gain.

6. I tend to overexpose mini-dv "SLIGHTLY"!!!!!!

Now also keep in mind that this is all based on the style,type of shooting I

do. I know its not practical to run around trying to meter every light on a

set (under normal circumstances). I always plan for "WHAT IF".

[Jason McKelvey]

For as much as a nice light meter, you could get a decent 8" broadcast montitor and actually see if it looks good. I can appreciate the use of a light meter, I have one myself, but respectfully, who cares what the ASA is at X shutter speed at X fps as long as it looks good on a monitor? With film I understand... you don't get to see the finished product. If you don't have a broadcast monitor, sure use the meter... but if it came time to buy something, I'd get a used monitor first. I've never been on a professional video shoot that didn't have a monitor, and on these shoots I've never seen a meter used. Sorry if I sounded sarcastic, I didn't mean too... I don't come from a film background and this guy sounds like a video guy in need of a video solution.

 

Sincerely,

Jason

[Phil Rhodes]

Hi,

 

I'm with Mr. McKelvey.

 

Phil

[Josh Bass]

Ah, well, here's the thing. I have an NTSC monitor, a nice one. However, as I said, seems some DPs, video-using DPs, still use them, even if not on the shoot itself (before, for scouting, checking available light levels, etc.) I've been on HD shoots where they were being bandied about.

 

At any rate, I talked to a local phtography store, and there are indeed el cheapo light meters, in the $40 range, but according to the clerk there, they only measure "ambient light." I don't know if that means it's a spot meter or an incident meter, but it's dimmed my light meter fire, since the cheapest ones that do both spot and incident are around $200, which I'm not willing to put out right now. So, any chance these $40 are worth my time? I think I've stated that I have no urgent need for one, but that using one might be a nice thing to learn to do.

[Jason McKelvey]

I've never used the spot feature on my meter... I've heard that some guys only use it rarely... What I would get if I were you is a footcandle meter. It's not that hard to memorize what footcandles readings you like for different effects. For instance, indoor controlled lighting for drama need not be more than 10 to 20 footcandles when using our SDX900 in 0db or +6db.

 

jason

[Michael Nash]

If a meter reads ambient light that means incident light, not reflected. As long as it has a dome on it it should work just fine as an incident light meter.

 

Most DP's work in terms of f-stops and ASA's, much less often in footcandles. It's true that you can do the math to translate fc's into f-stops and ASA, or apply it directly to your video camera through testing. But the same can be said for working the other way around -- read f-stops and ASA's, and calculate fc's from there.

 

I think it's a good idea to learn to use a light meter, even if you're shooting video for now. You may not really need it for shooting video, but it will only HELP you understand lighting and photography better if you can practice with it.

[Jon Allen]

What's wrong with zebra???

 

 

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[Jason McKelvey]

I've been burned by zebra... I think it's about as accurate as auto iris.

Jason

[Josh Bass]

Zebras are funny things. I use 'em as guide lines, and do the rest by eye.

[Michael Nash]

Zebra stripes are just another tool. It's effectively a way of spot metering, and it's hard to determine a proper exposure for the entire frame by reading only one luminance. It's info you can use, but not necessarily ALL the info you need.

 

Really, with a properly set up B&W viewfinder it's not hard to dial in exposure by eye (talking about professional cameras here). I mean, if the overall luminance looks good and there is nothing obviously clipped or crushed in a little B&W viewfinder, then the overall luminance, highlights and shadows won't look any WORSE in full-res color. Double check on a properly set up color monitor (in proper viewing conditions) for more critical exposures.