apple supports red

[jan von krogh]

fresh in from NAB:

 

Final Cut pro will support redcode native for editing and DI.

shipping july.

price 3495$.

[Eirik Tyrihjel]

There is a Quicktime film up on Apples website at http://www.apple.com/finalcutstudio/action/?movie=nab which describes the RED camera project and how it integrates with Final Cut 6.

 

Look for the link on the bottom right.

 

I have a feeling NAB will be a RED fest!

 

(BTW: The price has NOT changed. The full FCP package is still 1300$..)

Edited April 15, 2007 by Eirik Tyrihjel

[Eirik Tyrihjel]

Direct link to filmclip:

 

http://images.apple.com/movies/us/apple/fi...red20070414.mov

[Guest]

I think it's interesting the guy in the video says, "...high rez files that can't be characterized as video and certainly can't be characterized as film."

 

He was right about that, the Red output still looks like glorified DV. It's not even remotely close to the "film look." Of course if Red is not striving for that, then they have achieved their goal.

 

I'm sure the system will sell well and many will be happy with it. I hope lots of indie filmmakers buy it, and even fewer shoot film as result. It makes it easier for those of us working with film to separate our work from the video pack. And come to think of it, all these film schools abandoning film also makes the future brighter for those of us that shoot film :D

 

R,

 

PS: Is that Jared Land in the BG?

[Walter Graff]

Hey Apple finally caught up to companies like Decklink that have offered these uncompressed codecs for years with FCP. Isn't marketing amazing? Sort of like the whipped creme on top of the cake in the display. But once you bite into it, you find it taste like freezer burn. Anyway this promo will help the wannabes all waste even more money (they already did on the HVX thinking it was going to make them a filmmaker) on RED. A perfect camera it seems for the Jumblemouths. http://www.bluesky-web.com/jm.htm

[Nathan Milford]

Hey Apple finally caught up to companies like Decklink that have offered these uncompressed codecs for years with FCP. Isn't marketing amazing? Sort of like the whipped creme on top of the cake in the display. But once you bite into it, you find it taste like freezer burn. Anyway this promo will help the wannabes all waste even more money (they already did on the HVX thinking it was going to make them a filmmaker) on RED. A perfect camera it seems for the Jumblemouths. http://www.bluesky-web.com/jm.htm

 

 

Fantastic definition Walter. That ought to be in the OED.

[Jonathan Bowerbank]

I rather enjoyed the clip of the Coen Bros. as well. "Color" looks like a very user-friendly and more intuitive color correction tool.

[Francesco Bonomo]

I don't know about the US, but around here "wannabees" don't go and spend more than 20k on a camera just because they "heard it's good" or "revolutionary". If they have access to that amount of money, 90% of the times they invest them on a short movie (shot on film or on video).

 

By the way, the Apple website has another interesting clip about the new FCS featuring Fincher (and the one about Color is really cool).

[Walter Graff]

I don't know about the US, but around here "wannabees" don't go and spend more than 20k on a camera just because they "heard it's good" or "revolutionary".

 

In the US 'we' will waste any money we can. Credit cards help. I do know a few stories of some of these wannabes who forgoed paying rent for a HVX camera and at least one that caused himself serious financial setbacks spending money on the HVX, a camera he clearly could not afford. With the bigger promise that RED will make you even more of a filmmaker I would imagine there are some ready to sell the farm for a chance to own a magical camera that will transform one to nightly dinners and a cigar (RED brand of course) with some of Hollywood's biggest directors. And I am sure RED has a bunch of smoke can mirrors waiting for NAB so they can generate even more buzz and make it seem like the industry is going to forgo the switch to HD and simply go RED. Money can buy one anything in this world.

 

I do not know anyone who is on that supposed order list for RED but know that much of the viral marketing has been geared at the Jumblemouths who are excellent at spreading information. Considering the free marketing that RED gets from web sites (I would have charged to allow them to use my server for the types of viral marketing campaigns they are doing), they have been able to make RED a marketing phenomenon without even making a camera. I equate it to the Cabbage Patch Doll Phenomenon of the 80's. But as I said some time ago, it can also be a detriment as you have to deliver what you say and even more than what people expect. But more importantly, it has to be about more than the camera. People have to want it after the dust clears and your smoke and mirrors have faded, and you have to make associations with big entities to validate the cameras need and get those names to buy it in mass. No I don't mean telling me that Steven Spielberg is on the list. He and a few other major directors bought the HVX200 and what did that do for the camera after the smoke cleared and the Jumblemouths went from worshipping the HVX to RED? Right now as viral marketing goes, outside of the Jumblemouths, I don't personally know any professionals that are going into a deep freeze waiting for RED to be released. It's a niche camera that will fit into the many niches of HD, with none other than the major manufactures being the big sellers of any one particular camera. All the rest are just specialty cameras as will be RED as I see it. And as a professional who has spoken to many other working professionals about RED, the consensus from my camp is it sounds great but lets see what it does and namely if it survives the blight of HD marketing that is already over saturated now.

[Ken Cangi]

I think the potential real-world value of this camera will lie in the rental market.

 

It's unlikely that indie makers will suddenly be able to afford 20k for a camera - 30 or 40 if you consider lenses and accessories. Consequently, its default market would seem to be professional rentals. This, IMO, would depend solely on its day rate. Even if its day rate were close to that of a 35mm camera, there is still a potentially large savings in avoiding the cost of film, processing, telecine, etc, but if it weren't considerably less expensive than Viper or Genesis, for instance, then I can't imagine why a filmmaker wouldn't choose one of them over it.

 

I have not personally used Viper and Genesis so I might be missing a lot here. I would be interested in what those who have think.

Edited April 16, 2007 by Ken Cangi

[jan von krogh]

ok.

 

so, this was day -1.

 

now, day 0 ist just hours ahead.

anyone?

 

however.

digital aquistion will eliminate/annihilate 35/765 within the next 5/10 years.

 

btw: be aware that tomorrow, when he show starts, the mayor announcmets will follow.

[Frank Barrera]

Direct link to filmclip:

 

http://images.apple.com/movies/us/apple/fi...red20070414.mov

sooo what was this piece shot with? Was it with a RED camera? just wondering... cuz it would be kinda funny if it wasn't...

Edited April 16, 2007 by Frank Barrera

[Jim Simon]

"...high rez files that can't be characterized as video and certainly can't be characterized as film."

 

Not sure I agree with him completely. While the lens used to shoot the piece did allow for some nice DoF effects, overall it still looked like HD video. Certainly it didn't look like film.

[Guest]

however.

digital aquistion will eliminate/annihilate 35/765 within the next 5/10 years.

 

btw: be aware that tomorrow, when he show starts, the mayor announcmets will follow.

 

Oh my gosh I'm laughing so hard I think my spleen is rupturing!!

 

Jan you should get your own comedy show, you're histerical!!

 

You're comment ranks right up there with another great comedian of our age, who is responsible for the following classics:

 

"Iraq has weapons of mass destruction."

 

"Mission Accomplished"

 

"You're doing a heck of a job Brownie!"

 

And another great comedian of a different sort:

 

"I did not have sexual relations with that woman."

 

R,

[jan von krogh]

Not sure I agree with him completely. While the lens used to shoot the piece did allow for some nice DoF effects, overall it still looked like HD video. Certainly it didn't look like film.

 

i think "it didnt look like film" will be considered as an archivement from here on, as flkm is just 2nd class quakily for many purposes.

 

however, one could still overlay noise/grain, if one is really deeply involved with systems, and not making movies.

 

ps. i do understand that the youngsters as mr. jacoby do share their opinion ("ballhaus bores me to death") in a rather obscene wording, however.... monday will bring them the next things to consider.

[Hal Smith]

sooo what was this piece shot with? Was it with a RED camera? just wondering... cuz it would be kinda funny if it wasn't...

If Blondie in the blue jumpsuit gets anywhere near my horizontal bandsaw with a pipewrench and bolt cutter she'd better prepare for some major abuse. :D

[jan von krogh]

It's not even remotely close to the "film look." Of course if Red is not striving for that, then they have achieved their goal.

FYI: film look or whatever AC or clapper guys who might loose their job.... is just 2nd class. 1st class is havin artefact free, outstandinding images.

 

I'm sure the system will sell well and many will be happy with it.

i think you should be ware that red is by far the best seling cine,atic camera _ever_.

 

I hope lots of indie filmmakers buy it, and even fewer shoot film as result.

mr. boddington, i am used to spend >200.000$ a year on cameras and support - to be honest on cameras and gear you will not be allowed to lay your hand on, until its outdated is mainstream. does that make me an independent filmmaker?

 

It makes it easier for those of us working with film to separate our work from the video pack. And come to think of it, all these film schools abandoning film also makes the future brighter for those of us that shoot film

 

100% acknowledget.

[Guest]

"FYI: film look or whatever AC or clapper guys who might loose their job.... is just 2nd class. 1st class is havin artefact free, outstandinding images."

 

Oh yeah video is 100% reliable. The heads never clog, decks never eat tapes, they are never affected by moisture, there are never any drop outs, hard drives never crash or lose data. Gimme a break, what freakazoid planet do you live on?

 

"to be honest on cameras and gear you will not be allowed to lay your hand on, until its outdated is mainstream"

 

What are you saying, I'll never be able to rent gear at your rental house?

 

R,

[Tim Tyler]

Awww, sheeesh. Do I have to close down yet another Red thread?

 

Both of you stop your bickering, please.

[Guest]

No problem Tim, how are the wife and kids? :rolleyes:

 

So once Red becomes official we can go back to debating it?

 

R,

[Max Jacoby]

mr. boddington, i am used to spend >200.000$ a year on cameras and support - to be honest on cameras and gear you will not be allowed to lay your hand on, until its outdated is mainstream. does that make me an independent filmmaker?

Gosh 200.000$ is not going to even get you an Arricam body nowadays. Guess I'll have to pass on your BLs then in favour of the latest equipment from bigger rental companies ;)

[Francesco Bonomo]

Gosh 200.000$ is not going to even get you an Arricam body nowadays.

 

If I remember correctly, the Arricam is listed at 210.000$, i'd say it's close enough :P

[Andrew Ray]

Gentleman, I am new here and I can?t help the impression of very similar social phenomenon happening on McGill University (and not only) back in PC/mainframe computing era.

Half of the university higher ranking academia was buying IBM mainframes for $500,000 per any box of it (hard drive, CPU, I/O unit) and another half was getting excited with PCs just being introduced.

And we all know what happened next. Gentleman, relax. I can feel the high tension here on this forum, anything I missed that happened in the past 12 month here?

Edited April 16, 2007 by Andrew Ray

[Evangelos Achillopoulos]

The classical debate celluloid vs. digital?

 

What are better Vinyl disks or CDs? Of coarse Vinyl disks but CDs ARE selling every ware, NO vinyl disks any more, producers (Industry) decided that is GOOD enough.

 

A revolution started you (Max, Richard etc) guys didn?t understand it.

 

Cinematography is changed as of today, Apple put Color ?ex Final Touch? that am using for the last two years and I have successfully film print with our Lasergraphics film printer, films that went to Cannes, films that are telling stories and people are buying tickets to see them. So wake up in two to three years the Cinematography will not be like it was for the last 50 years.

 

If you noticed the Mr. Jan signature says ?producer? is the person that hires DoPs to do a movie, so if this guys found that the medium is OK then the film is dead, D.E.A.D., Dead, finished, finito ?

 

Do you remember where is stored your old SLR photo camera in the basement? In the warehouse where? Ohh you have it in your desk, but that centerfold that you sold yesterday to the agency it?s been shot with your DSLR?

 

WAKE UP

 

Instead of 250K dollars now are needed just 40K to do a proper DI system and instead of 400K to buy cameras and 200K to spend on film now just 20K to 40K are needed this IS revolution for Greeks, Italians, Dutch etc? I don?t care if it?s not for Americans?

 

So am preparing my DI/Film transfer house to be a RED (and other digital cameras) friendly place with lots of Terabytes available, capitalizing my know how that I gained the last three years after 14 features delivered in celluloid.

 

And that until DCI became a standard every ware and force me to throw the film printer into the sea?

 

Thanks god that they are DoPs like David that have their eyes, ears and mind wide open for the thinks that coming.

 

Regards, and long live the Cinematography (not film)

 

After all we are in a Cinematography forum not a Film lover?s forum? :unsure:

[Jim Simon]

i think "it didn't look like film" will be considered as an acheivment from here on, as film is just 2nd class quality for many purposes.

 

 

How so? From a resolution and color standpoint, 35mm is still superior to anything else.

 

And I think the comment "it doesn't look like film" in this case refers more to the overall "soap opera" look of video, including the red camera, than to the technical aspects.