Spectra, Pro8mm and 100T

[John Adolfi]

Any word on the 100T from Spectra? Also if Spectra has 100T and Pro8mm has 100T. And if Pro8mm sells for $5 less a roll, do you see any reason to wait on Spectra?

Edited April 28, 2007 by John Adolfi

[Alessandro Machi]

Any word on the 100T from Spectra? Also if Spectra has 100T and Pro8mm has 100T. And if Pro8mm sells for $5 less a roll, do you see any reason to wait on Spectra?

 

Did you mean 100D?

[Dan Goldberg]

Did you mean 100D?

 

No, I think he means the 7212 VISION2 100T from Spectra. So, yes, Spectra does carry it. And so does Pro8 (Pro8/12 ASA 100T)

Personally Pro8mm is great stuff, so I don't see why you need Spectra. But there could be other advantages about it that I don't know.

 

Dan Goldberg..

Edited April 28, 2007 by Dan Goldberg

[Anthony Schilling]

Where is that stated? I don't see it posted on their site. Only the 100D reversal has been listed as "coming soon"

[Alessandro Machi]

......Personally Pro8mm is great stuff.....

 

Dan Goldberg..

 

I prefer fresh, new film versus "stuff".

[Dan Goldberg]

I prefer fresh, new film versus "stuff".

 

stuff is good :rolleyes:

 

well it depends on what look you're going for I guess. All types of film have their advantages and disadvantages.

[adam berk]

I prefer fresh, new film versus "stuff".

 

 

So, are we saying that Spectra uses fresh stock, and Pro8 uses re-cans, etc?

[John Adolfi]

So sorry for the missunderstanding. I got the 100T and the 100D confused. Unconfused now. However does pro8mm sell a 100D?

Does anyone have full confirmation that the film is old? What is considered old?

[Alessandro Machi]

So, are we saying that Spectra uses fresh stock, and Pro8 uses re-cans, etc?

 

I guess the answer would reside in determining if Pro-8mm has a Kodak sales rep or not.

[John Hyde]

Personally Pro8mm is great stuff, so I don't see why you need Spectra. But there could be other advantages about it that I don't know.

 

There are a few differences. I have used both companies and feel that Spectra produces better results overall.

 

Pro8mm uses cheap re-can film (left over film from various production companies) to make into super 8. I myself have had X-ray and color issues with rogue batches of bad film from them in the past. Plus, their processing is usually marginal with excess dirt. It really makes me think of looking for a particular brand and model of new TV, finding it at a store with slightly lower price and buying it. But, when I get home I find that the TV is used, with worn buttons and burned out picture tube. Did I get a better deal?

 

The problem is that Pro8 sells their stuff without disclosing all the details. So, they manage to be highly competitive with others that struggle to sell more costly, better quality goods and services. Pro8 has plenty of margin and keeps their film prices a gnats hair below competitors with money to burn at the end of the day. Unfortunate that others must struggle to keep their price in league with a competitor that advertises their film as being equal (or better) in every way.

 

It is true that a typical roll of neg film from Spectra runs about $2.50 more than Pro8. But, considering that the film is guaranteed fresh (Kodak made it!) and processing quality is better, $2.50 is a small price to pay. Especially with $30.00 per roll at stake. And, as a bonus we support Kodak?s efforts as well. An easy decision for me! :)

[Anthony Schilling]

Maybe 2 weeks back, I last heard Spectra was waiting on some machinery of some sort to get the 100D out. The wait is killing me, because I know it will be cut from that same fresh DS8 stock Kodak is perfing now... The best projected stock I have ever seen in S8. Very similar look to the Velvia 50D, but you see more with the xtra speed.

Don't make me nervious about Pro8 now. I recently put a lot of work into 3 rolls of 7201, and a 7212. With high hopes it will come out looking how I know it can look. They are the only ones putting those 2 fine stocks into S8 carts now.

[Rachel Oliver]

Hi;

 

Well I shot 5 rolls of the Pro8/01 that Wittner stocks for Europe and it was perfect (apart from the usual few feet less than advertised, another little Pro8 trick)

 

I was really worried about it before shooting as I once shot some 16mm from Pro8 and it had serious Xray fog in places and almost ruined a film! But I took a chance on the 8mm and would do it again, I also trusted Wittner not to knowingly sell on bad film. I guess it's a bit of a lottery with Pro8....

 

Good luck Anthony!

 

Olly

[Alessandro Machi]

Hi;

 

Well I shot 5 rolls of the Pro8/01 that Wittner stocks for Europe and it was perfect (apart from the usual few feet less than advertised, another little Pro8 trick)

 

I was really worried about it before shooting as I once shot some 16mm from Pro8 and it had serious Xray fog in places and almost ruined a film! But I took a chance on the 8mm and would do it again, I also trusted Wittner not to knowingly sell on bad film. I guess it's a bit of a lottery with Pro8....

 

Good luck Anthony!

 

Olly

 

Perfect would be knowing that Pro-8mm actually has a Kodak rep and uses the rep to purchase fresh Kodak film, I've never heard anyone ever make that claim on behalf of Pro-8mm.

[John Hyde]

Pro8 may still have a Kodak rep to buy misc super 8 film (64T and black and white) and basic supplies. But, I am sure they never use Kodak to buy fresh 35mm for conversion to super 8! <_<

[Rachel Oliver]

Perfect would be knowing that Pro-8mm actually has a Kodak rep and uses the rep to purchase fresh Kodak film, I've never heard anyone ever make that claim on behalf of Pro-8mm.

 

Hi;

 

Well it all depends on your expectations really, what I meant was my expectations were met regarding that stock. The final results were as perfect as I would expect from fresh Kodak stock and I know what that performs like, apart from the slightly less than advertised amount as I stated. I will give credit when it's due but I am only using Pro8 when there is absolutely NO alternative, I have been extremely unhappy with their stock and processing in the past.

 

Olly

[Alessandro Machi]

Rachel your input is obviously appreciated, I just was noting your use of the word perfect might not apply to any facility that doesn't load super-8 film bought directly from kodak or a reseller versus a recanner.

 

I don't blame Pro-8mm for shorting the cartridges a small amount as it can make a difference as to how the film travels through the super-8 cartridge. The question is however, just how short of 50 feet does the film cartridge have to be loaded to to run smoothly and could this be alleviated by properly preparing the film cartridge beforehand? Kodak loaded negative film seems to reach the 50 foot range and it appears that Spectra's does as well. It is a fine line between packing as much into the cartridge as is possible without increasing the possibility of a film jam and packing just a bit too much a causing a film jam.

[Rachel Oliver]

I don't blame Pro-8mm for shorting the cartridges a small amount as it can make a difference as to how the film travels through the super-8 cartridge. The question is however, just how short of 50 feet does the film cartridge have to be loaded to to run smoothly and could this be alleviated by properly preparing the film cartridge beforehand? Kodak loaded negative film seems to reach the 50 foot range and it appears that Spectra's does as well. It is a fine line between packing as much into the cartridge as is possible without increasing the possibility of a film jam and packing just a bit too much a causing a film jam.

 

 

Hi;

 

Would that apply to their 16mm daylight spool loads too? I DP'd a short for someone using their Pro16 stocks 3a few years ago and found the rolls consistently around 10 feet short!

 

Regards

 

Olly

[John Hyde]

Hi;

 

Would that apply to their 16mm daylight spool loads too? I DP'd a short for someone using their Pro16 stocks 3a few years ago and found the rolls consistently around 10 feet short!

 

Regards

 

Olly

 

Yes, not only does Pro8mm provide shorter than 100' daylight spools, but, also packs their rolls with low-priced short-ends. They sell this film at prices slightly below the new price. As usual, nothing is disclosed about where the film comes from, leading you to believe you might be getting new, discounted film with Pro8 labeling. They compete directly with Spectra who provides only new, Kodak brand 16mm (with guarantee) in their discounted film packages. Still, many fail to see that there are big differences in what each company provides for the price.

[Terry Mester]

A few people have complained about problems with Spectra Cartridges being "too tight". The only explanation for this is that Spectra isn't leaving enough "slack" Film in the Take-up Spool chamber. I contacted Spectra about this a few months ago, but didn't hear back from them. You can resolve the problem yourself, before starting a new Cart, by pushing down with a tooth pick the inch or so of Film that's in the Film Gate. This extra inch of Film in the Take-up chamber should prevent the Film from getting pulled tight by the Take-up Spool. It is very dangerous to have the Film too tight because this could strip the Camera's Gears. Let us know if this extra inch of slack Film resolves the problem with Spectra Carts being too tight for your Camera

[Alessandro Machi]

A few people have complained about problems with Spectra Cartridges being "too tight". The only explanation for this is that Spectra isn't leaving enough "slack" Film in the Take-up Spool chamber. I contacted Spectra about this a few months ago, but didn't hear back from them....

 

Actually there is more than one possible explanation. Your suggestion may be helpful, but there are other considerations as well.

 

For instance, they really are trying to pack 50 feet of film or as absolutely close to fifty feet that is possible into the film cartridge. Temperature may also be playing a role in how easily certain film stocks transport through the cartridge. On top of that, the cartridges they received may have suffered a loss in quality due to the move from France back to the U.S. One rumor that has circulated is that France didn't bother to lubricate the final batch of cartridges since the cartridges were going to be loaded in the United States.

 

Spectra now does a very time consuming and tedious silicon treatment to the film cartridges that they load Velvia into.

[John Hyde]

Indeed. I also had problems with film being a bit tight in Spectra cartridges before they started silicone treating their cartridges. Now, all my cartridges from Spectra seem to be very smooth and trouble free.

[Terry Mester]

Indeed. I also had problems with film being a bit tight in Spectra cartridges before they started silicone treating their cartridges. Now, all my cartridges from Spectra seem to be very smooth and trouble free.

Is silicone all that Spectra said they changed about their Cartridges? Since they're buying their empty Carts from Kodak, the Carts would come lubricated by Kodak if that were necessary -- unless that rumour were true. Having taken apart a Cart, I can't see lack of lubrication as being the problem. However, the 'thickness' of the Film is also a relevant factor. Unfortunately Kodak's data sheets on K25&40 don't mention the thickness of that Film, but the S8 setup is definitely predicated upon a specific thickness of Film. I don't know if Fuji's Velvia is thicker than Kodachrome. It would be good to find out this info.

The Sprocket Arm in the Film Gate is what is responsible for 'pushing' the Film down through the Gate. Using a tooth pick you can see how little force is required for the Film to be pushed down. If you tried turning the Clutch (clockwise when looking at it), you would see how quickly it gets stuck once the slack Film gets reeled in. The Clutch turning the Take-up Spool is not supposed to be 'pulling' the Film through, or it would screw up the synchronization and alignment of the Frames. Perhaps such 'pulling' could be the cause of jitteriness which some S8 users have complained about. Since the Take-up Spool reels the Film in the opposite direction that the Film enters the chamber, the Take-up chamber could easily handle 4 or 5 inches of slack Film without obstructing the Sprocket Arm from pushing the Film through. There does have to be some slack Film so that it doesn't pull the Film. A thicker Film Emulsion would need extra slack in the Take-up chamber because it would start reeling up the Film more quickly than a thinner Emulsion. Pushing down an extra couple inches of Film with Velvia Carts might be a good idea to avoid damaging your Camera. As Alessandro noted, a colder Emulsion would be stiffer, and could also cause some problems in the winter.

 

From your own experience with the Spectra Carts that you found to be too tight, did you find the Frames on that Cart to be jittery or out of alignment as compared to K40 Carts?

[Alessandro Machi]

Is silicone all that Spectra said they changed about their Cartridges? Since they're buying their empty Carts from Kodak, the Carts would come lubricated by Kodak if that were necessary -- unless that rumour were true. Having taken apart a Cart, I can't see lack of lubrication as being the problem.

 

Who says you would "see" lack of lubrication. Super-8 film inside of a cartridge goes around a few bends and turns therefore the "tightening" you describe can easily be exacerbated by lack of proper cartridge lubrication.

 

I'm not discounting your research and the film thickness and take-up slack might very well be an issue as well. However the jamming issue seems to have been virtually eliminated once the silicon was painstakingly and carefully added to each cartridge. Adding the silicon is is like putting ketchup in those little ketchup packets from the fast food place, one by one, only worse, because the silicon has to dry before the film cartridge can be reassembled, reassembled IN THE DARK.

[Anthony Schilling]

There were problems with the Velvia. It had a lot of jutter, probably because Velvia in not an MP stock... lovely as it is. I have 2 pre-production carts of Ektachrome 100D from Spectra. I shot one yesterday and it ran very smooth at all speeds. Velvia chattered a bit in the camera. I look forward to good things on Spectra 100D.

[Terry Mester]

I think that the lubrication Spectra started doing was for the Pressure Plate behind the Film. Plastic has more friction than metal, and it would be beneficial to have the Pressure Plate given a smoother coating. I checked with my older Argus, and it seems that the Camera's Clutch is designed to slip when the Film gets tight. So a lack of slack Film wouldn't be an explanation for tightness. The only explanation I can think of for tightness in Spectra Carts is the Velvia Film Emulsion which I'm quite certain is thicker and stiffer than other Films. This would definitely cause Velvia Carts to be harder for the Film to move through.

Can anyone say if you've experienced tightness with Spectra's non-Velvia Carts, or just Velvia Carts?