RED ONE new footage

[Emanuel A Guedes]

Here's the new Peter Jackson's trailer (1k version) shot on a RED prototype last March:

 

http://24puser.com/Crossing1k.mov

 

mirrors:

http://www.runjumpfly.net/RED/Crossing1k.mov

http://www.freshdv.com/mjeppsen/video/red/Crossing1k.mov

http://hawkeye.digital-elephant.com/client/redclip/

http://www.appliedvisual.com/redclips/Crossing1k.mov

http://www.emissivity.com/movies/Crossing1k.mov

 

There will be a new 1K version available today or tomorrow according the information of Mr. Jannard in order to fix a few conversion hassles. And we're waiting for a new 2K version in a week or so.

Edited August 21, 2007 by Emanuel A Guedes

[Stephen Williams]

Here's the new Peter Jackson's trailer (1k version) shot on a RED prototype last March:

 

http://24puser.com/Crossing1k.mov

 

mirrors:

http://www.runjumpfly.net/RED/Crossing1k.mov

http://www.freshdv.com/mjeppsen/video/red/Crossing1k.mov

http://hawkeye.digital-elephant.com/client/redclip/

http://www.appliedvisual.com/redclips/Crossing1k.mov

http://www.emissivity.com/movies/Crossing1k.mov

 

There will be a new 1K version available today or tomorrow according the information of Mr. Jannard in order to fix a few conversion hassles. And we're waiting for a new 2K version in a week or so.

 

Hi Emanuel,

 

Thanks for the link, its a big file, I was going to post a link to the new version when it was up on the Red site.

 

One must remember that the footage was shot on prototype cameras almost 5 months ago. Jim has been very open about technical problems at that time & he that he intends to fix those issues before releasing the cameras.

 

I have only seen the 1K version from the above links, I think it's really very impressive. This is the first time to my knowledge that pictures shot in direct sunlight have been shown, the original teaser did not show off the full capabilities of the camera IMHO.

 

I am going to IBC where I will get the chance to see the full 4k version, & hopefully get a chance to play with real production cameras, lenses & accessories.

 

With cameras scheduled for delivery in under 2 weeks, it's clear that Jim is delivering a real and useful product.

 

Stephen

[jan von krogh]

With cameras scheduled for delivery in under 2 weeks, it's clear that Jim is delivering a real and useful product.

 

Stephen

 

 

Hi Stephen,

 

however i wouldn´t be surprised if they will more time.

their roll-out plan -really- is ambitious, and things -can- go wrong.

 

anyhow, in my humble opinion, the red seems to me the most single new important camera since i begun working in our industry.

we will be at all presentations at IBC and i suppose we will be easy to spot in our t-shirts - you will know why if you see us.

[Stephen Williams]

Hi Stephen,

 

however i wouldn´t be surprised if they will more time.

their roll-out plan -really- is ambitious, and things -can- go wrong.

 

Hi Jan,

 

Zakaree from the Red team would seem to be confident that the first cameras will ship August 31st.

 

http://www.cinematography.com/forum2004/in...st&p=188997

 

Stephen

[jan von krogh]

Hi Jan,

 

Zakaree from the Red team would seem to be confident that the first cameras will ship August 31st.

 

http://www.cinematography.com/forum2004/in...st&p=188997

 

Stephen

 

... they are professionals, however i have met directors who where 100% confident to have the master by tomorrow .... :)

[Zakaree Sandberg]

Hi Jan,

 

Zakaree from the Red team would seem to be confident that the first cameras will ship August 31st.

 

http://www.cinematography.com/forum2004/in...st&p=188997

 

Stephen

 

Please don?t quote me on any definitive information. I was just stating the schedule that was released and Jim had said we are still on schedule unless unforeseen events take place

 

"We are currently planning to ship the 1st 50 cameras by the end of the month. Things can slip, maybe the next 100 will slip... we don't know. But we aren't planning on that happening. A lot depends on how these 1st 50 cameras act when we fire them up. :-)

 

Jim"

 

We have been working really hard these last few weeks:)

 

But I do know this for definitive!!! RED ONE WILL KICK ASS

[Carl Brighton]

Please don?t quote me on any definitive information. I was just stating the schedule that was released and Jim had said we are still on schedule unless unforeseen events take place

 

"We are currently planning to ship the 1st 50 cameras by the end of the month. Things can slip, maybe the next 100 will slip... we don't know. But we aren't planning on that happening. A lot depends on how these 1st 50 cameras act when we fire them up. :-)

 

Jim"

 

We have been working really hard these last few weeks:)

 

But I do know this for definitive!!! RED ONE WILL KICK ASS

F*ck me in the Ozarks...

 

JJ:

"A lot depends on how these 1st 50 cameras act when we fire them up. :-)"

 

When did he sat THAT?! Exactly HOW MUCH burn-in and presale soak testing are these things going to get?

You can call me a miserable old curmudgeon, but I can tell you, if those bloody things aren't reliable you can kiss your notions of the RED revolution goodbye before you even start.

 

So ... Jeezus tapdancing Christ ... a week out from the projected first delivery, nobody on Reduser.net has reported being asked for the balance of their payment, including some low-number deposit holders. So with the weekend coming up, unless something happens today that'll give them about five days to get their payment arrangements made. Since (quoting you):

 

"Buyer must pay the full remaining balance of the invoice before order will be processed for shipment. Balance payments in the amount of $7,500 USD or greater will only be accepted via wire transfer or cash equivalent (such as money order, Cashier?s Check, or personal check drawn from a United States bank). Balance payments in the amount of $7,499.99 USD or less may be remitted via credit card payments, wire transfer or cash equivalent as outlined above"

 

So tell me Kemosabe, exactlly how many people will have a balance payment due of $7.49999K or less?

 

And, on Aug 22 you said:

"Approximately 30 days before anticipated ship date RED will contact each customer to discuss final payment and method to release product to customer"

 

So unless I'm missing something, that makes the anticipated ship date on or about Sept 22 at the earliest. Yes? No?

 

And, how long does your reservation hold good for once your shipping date is announced? And what happens if you go past that date without purchasing. I've noticed they said that reservation holders who pull out don't speed the queue for everybody else, those cameras get diverted to other clients.

 

I have a feeling the next couple of months are going to be about as exciting as watching bread go stale.

 

 

With all the respect possible in light of these alarming revelations,

Carl :rolleyes:

[greg bates]

That footy looks nice. I'm not buying a Red. I haven't earned it, didn't earn my HVX either so when I become a better shooter Red will be there and i'll have cash for Red. I can't wait to see what people with a budget can do with the camera.

[John Sprung]

So ... Jeezus tapdancing Christ ...

Red is a very large project, like a major feature film, or building a high rise. If it doesn't come in exactly on schedule and budget, well, that's the nature of such things. I don't know the Red folks personally, I don't have a reservation with them. But on this point, I'd certainly cut 'em some slack and let them get their work done.

 

 

 

-- J.S.

[jan von krogh]

Red is a very large project, like a major feature film, or building a high rise. If it doesn't come in exactly on schedule and budget, well, that's the nature of such things.

Yes.

Having been involved in several larger designs and development, i would rather be surprised if such a project would be completed exactly in time.

Thats rather the exception, and anyone in the industry for a little bit longer has made that experience with almost any manufacturer.

No matter if mass market software (apple, microsoft) or expensive mechanical engineering (Airbus A380, Rolly Royce, Boeing), you usually find problems along the way, and the final 5% can sometimes be as problematic as the first 50%.

And even if the prototypes perform well - serial manufacturing offers a plenthorra of additional logistic and technological challenges.

 

There is a russian proverb:

You can have 9 women, but you won´t get the baby in a month.

 

I don't know the Red folks personally, I don't have a reservation with them. But on this point, I'd certainly cut 'em some slack and let them get their work done.

-- J.S.

I had the pleasure to meet them in summer 2006. Very throughout and open communication.

Back then they told us: The only thing which is sure - is that there will be changes.

 

Logically, as reservation holder, i would benefit of a delivery at the earliest date.

However, i wasn´t expecting cameras of that class before 2009-11, and certainly not at that pricepoint.

Therefore our mid-term strategy has been bosted by them quite a bit, even if they would need additional months.

[Tim Brown]

Red production schedule has been updated.

[jan von krogh]

F*ck me in the Ozarks...

Carl :rolleyes:

Serial numbers 1-25 will be delivered August 31st (next Friday).

Serial numbers 26-50 will be delivered Sept, 7th (following Friday).

 

There will be a slight delay due to IBC for the next batch of deliveries.

We'll keep you posted.

 

Jim

[Carl Brighton]

Red is a very large project, like a major feature film, or building a high rise. If it doesn't come in exactly on schedule and budget, well, that's the nature of such things. I don't know the Red folks personally, I don't have a reservation with them. But on this point, I'd certainly cut 'em some slack and let them get their work done.

-- J.S.

 

"If it doesn't come in exactly on schedule and budget, well, that's the nature of such things."

 

I coudn't agree more.

 

But it sounds awfully like they're rushing them out the door without proper quality control testing. (Which is what tends to happen when you shoot your mouth off too much about "never missing a deadline" <_< )

 

The first 50 cameras should all be lined up in a warehouse running 24/7 for at least a couple of weeks to check for production bugs. Couldn't we at least see a photo of the first 25 or so cameras? Or would that be too much like showing a Victorian gentleman a photo of 25 ladies' bare ankles :lol:

 

And what does "Delivery on Aug 31" actually mean? There are plenty of Reduser posters on the low-numbers list; with less than a week to go, thus far not one of them has come on to post something like: "Whoo-Hoo!! RED have just phoned up to ask me for the balance, and where I want the camera sent!" Since RED won't take credit cards for most of the payment, that doesn't give them too much time to get payment organized.

 

So ... on Friday WHERE are they going to be shipped to?

 

 

With all the respect my ingrown toenail and hemorrhoids will allow me at this moment,

(and the fact that nobody has really answered any of my questions),

 

Carl

[jan von krogh]

But it sounds awfully like they're rushing them out the door without proper quality control testing.

Carl,

red has not only field tested the camera (with guys as peter jackson, rodney charters etc), but the cameras are actually used to shoot fullfeature for Steven Soderberg and Timur Bekmambetov since months.

 

Several issues have been identified in that phase and ironed out. How the series QC is done at Red and if they took months, weeks or days is pure speculation at this moment in time.

 

The first two types of lenses will be delivered as well, btw. One zoom, one prime.

 

(Which is what tends to happen when you shoot your mouth off too much about "never missing a deadline" <_< )

Red delayed the delivery by almost 90 days and the schedule is -as before- tentative.

 

Couldn't we at least see a photo of the first 25 or so cameras?

"We" will probably see photos of thousands or so cameras used worldwide, and, more interesting imho, shots done by the camera.

First shots will be done Friday in Los Angeles by FxPh.

 

here are plenty of Reduser posters on the low-numbers list; with less than a week to go, thus far not one of them has come on to post something like: "Whoo-Hoo!! RED have just phoned up to ask me for the balance, and where I want the camera sent!" Since RED won't take credit cards for most of the payment, that doesn't give them too much time to get payment organized.

I don´t know how every single buyer will manage it, however several folks are flying over to L.A. to pick the cameras up. Mike Seymour, from fxguide.com, is one of them.

You could contact him on reduser.net or at fxguide.com and ask about details regarding his payment process.

Be assured that in 2007, it isn´t that complicated to transfer $$.$$$ or more from A to B within a day or week.

 

And what does "Delivery on Aug 31" actually mean? T

It does mean delivery on Aug 31.

 

So ... on Friday WHERE are they going to be shipped to?

To the reservation holders.

[Carl Brighton]

Jan,

 

I don't want to kick the ladder out from your carefully assembled edifice of self esteem, but I could have thought up all those answers myself.

 

Except, they're not really answers, they're either pure speculation or just recycled Red Bull.

 

One of the purposes of a public forum like this one is to allow people to ask questions that it might not occur to less informed (or less experienced) people to ask.

 

Questions that some people would rather were not asked.

 

If there is a perfectly reasonable explanation that would alleviate people's suspicions about something, the suspect-ee has the same opportunity to make that explanation.

 

If their answer is vague, misleading or evasive, the original questioner is also free to point this out.

If the suspect-ee refuses to answer, for no sensible reason, well that in itself is saying something.

 

The thing is, all of these postings are available for public perusal. People can read both sides of the discussion, which may then give them ideas for questions they might want to ask themselves, that others would rather were not asked.

 

That is all that I and most of the so-called "RED-haters" have ever done: Asked the hard questions, and made people aware that there are unanswered hard questions.

 

The patronizing tone of some of many of the pro-RED posts here is clearly designed to engineer a confrontation in order to have the thread closed.

 

I can only speculate on the reasons people are so determined that the so-called "RED haters" should be effectively gagged in this manner.

 

If you're determined to become a RED owner, you're going to buy a RED; you're not going to listen to me. But hey, I'm perfectly happy to have somebody else scouting out the unknown territory at their expense.

Or somebody else's expense!

 

 

And I rather think that is the answer. Some people might be worried that the people they might have talked into bankrolling their own particular contribution to the RED revolution, might get to hear both sides of the argument....

 

And that would NEVER do :lol:

[jan von krogh]

Except, they're not really answers, they're either pure speculation or just recycled Red Bull.

Carl, facts don´t become speculation or "red bull" only because you dislike them.

 

- The cameras prototypes are in use since almost half a year.

On real production sets of multimillion dollar productions.

Have been put through dirt, dust, heat, explosion, non-wescam aerial use -the stuff cameras dislike-by Peter Jacksons Crew.

This lead to several design changes (peltier cooling, fan control, lattitude readout, etc.).

 

- Many design discussion have been made using public discussion. Red rarely was to shy to ask for feedback, and they shared what they wouldn´t or couldn´t do in a very open way.

One of the recent examples for this were the possible framerates.

This also fixed several typical teething problems, and there is much less of "cat in a bag"-syndrome.

 

- The >2000 reservation holders can cancel their order and get full refund. 120% refund for us early reservation holders even, iirc.

Using basic logic, one might come to the conclusion, that therefore it would be in the manufacturers best interest, to have a rather satisfied clients, and this might even include having QC.

 

Besides these factors, it should be taken into consideration, that the camera, especially in CF or SSD configuration, has almost no moving parts - which is a good thing imho.

 

One of the purposes of a public forum like this one is to allow people to ask questions that it might not occur to less informed (or less experienced) people to ask.

Questions that some people would rather were not asked.

No pun intented, but there is a difference between asking question or jumping to conclusions.

 

If there is a perfectly reasonable explanation that would alleviate people's suspicions about something, the suspect-ee has the same opportunity to make that explanation.

If their answer is vague, misleading or evasive, the original questioner is also free to point this out.

If the suspect-ee refuses to answer, for no sensible reason, well that in itself is saying something.

I fail to see what is vague, evasive or misleading by announcing 31. August as delivery date.

 

The thing is, all of these postings are available for public perusal. People can read both sides of the discussion, which may then give them ideas for questions they might want to ask themselves, that others would rather were not asked.

That is all that I and most of the so-called "RED-haters" have ever done: Asked the hard questions, and made people aware that there are unanswered hard questions.

I didn´t see any constructive input into the red project from your side, as i didn´t see any from the "red-haters" here.

In fact, most of the red team stopped communication here, for obvious reasons, and mr. jannard made it pretty clear that he didn´t saw input from this subforum, when people claimed otherwise.

 

The patronizing tone of some of many of the pro-RED posts here is clearly designed to engineer a confrontation in order to have the thread closed.

I can only speculate on the reasons people are so determined that the so-called "RED haters" should be effectively gagged in this manner.

You doubted that red would deliver on time, the same day JJ confirmed the schedule.

The normal reaction in that situation would be: "Hey, sorry i am wrong - congrats red".

Instead you complain that there would be a conspiracy to "gag" you.

 

If you're determined to become a RED owner, you're going to buy a RED; you're not going to listen to me. But hey, I'm perfectly happy to have somebody else scouting out the unknown territory at their expense.

Or somebody else's expense!

And I rather think that is the answer. Some people might be worried that the people they might have talked into bankrolling their own particular contribution to the RED revolution, might get to hear both sides of the argument....

You are missing the point here.

Orders are refundable.

The first 50 users will provide interesting feedback, and anyone who feels uncomfortable with the outcome can cancel its red.

 

Hearing both sides of the argument is something different than jumping to wild conclusions or to speculate.

The world isn´t a place only painted in white and black (or red). I have made many critical posts on reduser.net.

Interestingly enough, the one who exposes many qualitative problems in the planned color/FCS2 workflow was made sticky.

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=2825

I don´t think that it is clever to be a "hater" or "fanboy". I openly admit that i have the highest respect for what the people at red tried and archived.

I am happy that we have a good jump ahead in picture quality, creative possibilities and price. That doesn´t make anyone or the product at red perfect.

 

But if we, as customers, point out mistakes or possible improvements to a manufacturer, gentlemen-style communication often is more helpful than the "if you can´t stand the steam, get out of the kitchen"-attitude.

[Jon Hunter]

First off-

 

Carl, I thought you posted recently that you were not going to post here any more. Am I correct? Why are you here again with your negative attitude??? Don't take this the wrong way, but honestly, get lost!

 

You guys are something else! A bunch of you fine folk here at cinematography dot com started off by saying, "A camera like that could never be built." Then it was, "Well, I am sure it doesn't exist. It is a hoax." Then it was, "well sure... but it will never stay at the same price they claimed they would charge for it." Then there was, "They will never make NAB...." Then it was, "well.... I am tired of hearing about this camera from directors and producers... we need to see what a DP or indie film-maker thinks of it.... they need to get it into our hands so we can really try it out..." Then there was, "I doubt they will be able to get it out in the time-frame... I bet it will be sometime next year until the reservation holders even see it...." And now finally.... "They are rushing.... They haven't done proper tests...."

 

HOW IN THE HECK DO YOU KNOW THEY HAVE NOT DONE THE TESTS??? DON'T YOU THINK THE CAMERA IS STILL GOING TO BE TESTED AS THESE THINGS START TO TRICKLE OUT!!! AND DON'T YOU THINK JIM WILL HELP OUT IF CERTAIN PROBLEMS BEGIN TO SHOW UP IN THE BEGINING WITH THE FIRST CAMERAS? My god- did JVC rush out the HD100? I bought one that had every problem in the book. Those guys didn't even help me. They just came out with a newer version called the HD110. Ops... looks like I can't just update the camera like a RED huh? Oh well, whats another 8000.00 to spend on the newer version.

 

Carl- you and the Werner guy- I swear, you do nothing but run your mouth. Why not help? Why not offer ideas on how to make this a better camera. Why sit there and slam the camera constantly and why slam the indie film-maker. You seem to be a smart guy- if you are so interested in this camera (which I assume you are, otherwise you would not be posting here) why not offer new ideas, share your experience on what could be done to make it amazing. Contact RED- Help them. Stop this negative attitude and lets put that behind us. Lets work on this with everyone. This camera was built with ideas and concepts from indie film-makers.

 

Don't you dare sit there and say that you have not insulted the indie film-maker in the past. I have read your sarcastic remarks... You and Werner's comments are what caused me to join this website. I love reading all the BS that you post. I would actually come here not to learn, but to be entertained. Eventually, I had to join because I could not take it any more. Especially when attacks were made towards reservation holders, like me, who plan on making indie films, and commercials.

 

My main mission is to now counter your posts. Thought it might be fun for a while since it seems you're back.

 

However, you could just go back to your original idea and just simply not post on this red forum anymore. Not a half bad idea you had there. I think the people who come here want to learn and ask good questions. Not just hear negative comments all the time, and also not to be slammed as an indie film-maker who wants a new state of the art camera.

 

Call me a fanboy, redboy, or whatever you want-

[Guest]

Welcome to the forum Jon Hunter, looks like you'll fit right in.

 

R,

[Stephen Williams]

Welcome to the forum Jon Hunter, looks like you'll fit right in.

 

R,

 

Hi Richard,

 

You certainly changed your tune after you took over that very low reservation no!

 

Stephen

[Häakon]

They'll all change their tune eventually. Some of us just saw the light a little sooner. :-)

[Stephen Williams]

They'll all change their tune eventually. Some of us just saw the light a little sooner. :-)

 

Hi Häakon,

 

I guess he will sell it to Jan!

 

Stephen

[Jon Hunter]

QUOTE(Graeme Nattress @ Jan 15 2007, 06:47 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Perhaps you'd better come over to reduser.net though if we're not allowed to talk about RED here?

 

Graeme

 

No thanks, I'll just sit on the sidelines. I don't really care one way or the other about the RED, and I get the distinct impression anybody who asks any sensible questions there is going to be shown the door rather quickly, a la some of the other fanboy-oriented forums.

 

 

(my point exactly--- Why are you here Carl? Just to stir up a fight?)

[jan von krogh]

Hi Häakon,

 

I guess he will sell it to Jan!

 

Stephen

 

Depending on the price and nr. - i might be interested in any camera below <400.

However, with ~80 days until delivery of our first 2 cameras,

2 fullfeatures (small budget) D.I. booked until december,

two sony 750 scheduled and shooting,

the ibc week ahead,

i am not to much

in a hurry.

 

jan

[Jon Hunter]

"I suppose the question really is: "When is somebody actually going get their hands on a camera and be asked for their $16,000 (plus applicable state taxes ). Or: "When does the name Reduser.net acquire meaning?" Apparently: "Sometime between now and August 30th."

 

Jannard basically says #50 will be delivered by August 30, then another 50 in the next two weeks, 200 the next month, then 400 the month after that, then 500 per month for four months then 700 per month.

 

He says he only has actual orders for about 2,000 units, so I presume he's expecting an upsurge in orders once people actually see the camera working in a real-world environment.

 

Oh well, my work is done now:-) I guess I'll just sit back now and enjoy the flood of First-Class Indy productions sure to come surging my way."

 

A QUOTE FROM CARL---

 

 

 

So they have done just about everything they said they were going to do. Yet we still get wonderful friends like Carl who run around running their mouth and talking about all kinds of mistakes they are making. Take a look at the last thing he said..... Pretty much a sarcastic insult to us indie film-makers.

 

With quotes like that, Carl certainly looses credit of being someone we can take seriously.

 

So Carl, do me a favor, either stop insulting guys who might be for the red camera, or just get lost. Do you want me to dig up more quotes that you have posted?

 

Remember, I have been watching this forum for about 2 years now. I just started to post about a month ago- I know other things you have said that were pretty insulting to someone who wants to get into this business. Don't make me go search and dig for them. I would rather spend my time learning and working on new technology that can help this industry.

 

Bu..bye....

[jan von krogh]

They'll all change their tune eventually. Some of us just saw the light a little sooner. :-)

 

I am happy when many people get it late. For us as a smaller company, its paramount to plan precisely, and therefore,

I just love to see the competition here in Germany buying F23s and 2/3 lenses.

 

Was the same with the Hdcam cameras. When bought early, you earned them back before the rest of the competition decided to go for the risk.

 

However, this model only works well if you don´t intend to grow massively (as we do).

 

But back to your topic - yes, i agree. I guess within 5-10 years 35mm will be mainly shot with sensors instead of film.