Lighting from ceiling...

[Sean Stiegemeier]

So I have a semi-long steadicam shot running through a bar scene and I need to hang some lights from above so no equiptment will get in the shot. We arent using large heavy lights, but we are using a number of smaller ones (650's or smaller). I havent had too much experience with these types of set ups, so my question is what is the easiest way to get the lights mounted above? We are in a location that is really nice so we cant be doing any damage to the walls/ceilings. Any reccomendations?

[Kevin Zanit]

Either use a pole cat or wall spreader.

 

This could be a problem if you see the ceiling, but if so you may be able to get art to dress it.

 

If it is a drop ceiling, you could use a piece of gripology (whose name eludes me at the moment) that fits between the dividers in the ceiling, and lets you hand lights off of that.

 

If there are already practical in the ceiling, you could probably rig something with either a chain vise or just bailing wire and hang from that.

 

It really depends on the location, and is a case by case type of thing.

 

 

Kevin Zanit

[futerfas]

Get a good Key Grip and look for the solutions. There is always a way to put up a rig, depending on what you want to achieve and your budget\ingenuity. C-Clamps with cribbing, Pole-cats and wall spreaders are amazing. Clamping above drop-down false ceilings are options, or maybe scissor clips if it's a false ceiling grid. I've been able to talk some locations into letting us drill baby plates into the ceiling, but some places won't allow it - for good reason! Even on low-budget shows, I've been really impressed with our ability to hide hanging lights and make them work. My gaffer would recommend getting some Socapex to keep the cabling manageable -- we got bit by this recently, and it was a mess that cost some time to move. We just didn't have the right stuff.

 

If there are recessed light sockets, you can get these handy grip items from Modern Grip Equipment ($30 each) that are made of plastic and have a baby spud on one side and a medium screw-in base on the other. These will screw in where the light bulb is and put a baby spud for your light. Molded plastic or PVC so they don't conduct electricity. Then buy a small pig nose at the hardware store, and you can get both a spud and a little power for a small light (I don't recommend more than 300watts or so because of the small wires inside).

 

Also, I've had the idea to put up a truss grid supported from the ground, if you can hide the legs with art department (columns or dressing). This is a little more intense and expensive. And the other idea I've used is to tape white showcard to the ceiling and bounce a Source 4 or a Tweenie on a pancake into it. This will at least bring up your ambience, though it's not necessarily pretty.

 

An opposite problem I had was in a location with white ceilings and light hardwood floors, and I wanted to cut the ambience down. I wasn't allowed to hang any lights or attach anything to the structure. The production never used the location, in the end, but I had the idea to fill garbage bags or visqueen with helium to put black on the ceiling and knock down the bounce. Admittedly, I've read this idea in American Cinematographer once, but can't remember the exact details of material and so forth, so if anyone remembers this or has experience with it, let me know.

 

-Graham

[Phil Rhodes]

Hi,

 

Polecats? I've never been ecstatic about them safety-wise, but the idea is that you extend them between two walls and the rubber ends grip. They work OK, but there's a limit to the distance you can span and you still have to get mains to them without draping cable everywhere.

 

Phil

[J Costantini]

Do you have a general idea of how much weight can a polecat take? I don´t...

I´m sure it depends on the size of the pole but shouldn´t be a lot, right?

 

?

[Phil Rhodes]

Hi,

 

I think I once put a 1K and a 650W Arrilite on one, but I did tell everyone to keep out from under the damn thing, I didn't trust it an inch.

 

Phil

[Mark Sasahara]

I love wall spreaders and polecats/autopoles. Furniture clamps too. As mentioned, use cribbing to protect the surface finish. be sure that the rubber end caps don't leave a mark on the wall! You can safety them by aircraft wire into the ceiling, or walls. Unfortunately you can't always do this. Often above the drop ceiling are nice metal beams that you can clamp onto.

 

Better stocked hardware stores have various types of beam clamps that bolt onto I beams above drop ceiling. sometimes you can get away with drilling into the ceiling above. Be aware that the I beam surfaces are sloped-safety, safety safety. Industrial lighting and plumbing stores have these type of things, also Fastenal, my new toy store. They have locations all over, plus online. You can safety off of the I beam clamps or hang lights from them. The Light Bridge is the thing that hangs lights above the drop ceiling

 

I have used stained wood 2x4's and 3/4 round wooden hand railing disguised as wooden accents, bedposts, etc. to help safety wall spreaders and polecats when I couldn't drill into walls/ceilings. Like others have said, you don't want to overload them, but the Art Department, Gaffer and Grips are your allies. On smaller jobs, I end up doing it myself with various members of the afore mentioned departments.

 

Hiding units around various areas of the set works. If bouncing off the ceiling, you can make duvetyne teasers to channel the light and block off areas, or hide to lights and spreaders. The teasers can sometimes work to hide the rest of the ceiling and actually be set dressing, depending on the context of the set.

 

I have used Kino Flos as practicals that double as keylights. They're in shot, but they look like practicals. Sometimes this requires a bit of tape magic to make a convincing flushmount that is really just tape. I haven't tried it, but if it's a wide shot, you could use an ND grad to make the lights appear darker and not attract as much attention. Then cut to mediums or close ups. But not sure how the steadycam op feels about that.

 

Use your imagination, but be safe and watch out for heat sensors and sprinkler systems and other various wires up there.

[Bill Totolo]

And don't forget the option of having an electrician follow along with a kino or a china ball if you want to keep some basic exposure on your actors.

[Phil Rhodes]

Hi,

 

I have a bit of a storage problem at the moment - there was a time when I kept all my gear in a cupboard, now I simply have a pile of equipment with a cupboard somewhere underneath it. The point here is this: exactly how much kit is the freelancer expected to own? Yes, I know it depends on the kind of job you're doing, but while I don't really feel it's my responsibility to own things like polecats, I do often find myself wishing I had some.

 

But then you buy it and nobody will pay you rental for it, so you've all this investment which is only making you money on the rather intangible basis that your work looks better because of it.

 

What to do?

 

Phil

[Michael Nash]

But then you buy it and nobody will pay you rental for it, so you've all this investment which is only making you money on the rather intangible basis that your work looks better because of it.

 

What to do?

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

In my case the gear I own works as a form of advertising or marketing, which you might spend money on otherwise. In other words, I bring my toys to the set and use them, it makes the shot look good, people see that and hire me again. I don't get kit rental; I get repeat business. And THAT is the best payment a freelancer can receive.

[Michael Nash]

I was gaffer on music video sequence that involved 360 degree steadicam work in a practical bar interior, with low ceilings. We ended up using every trick in the book to rig lights and hide cables. Lots of mafer clamps, Cardelini clamps, gator grips, C-clamps; all with proper padding or cribbing. You have to rely heavily on art direction to hide or disguise fixtures and rigging, and try to block the camera movement carefully to just miss instruments in the shot from different angles. Ocassionally some blocking with actors is invloved to hide lights and stands as the camera moves.

 

One trick that helped immensely though was smoking the place up. Smoke in a dark room will hide almost anything. You can frame up an instrument directly and all you see is a bright glow. The flip side of that is that the smoke "gives away" the source of light (makes the smoke near it glow brighter), so you have to try to make the sources as logical and practical looking as possible.

 

You can also put small lights down low under tables/booths/counters to add some fill or highlight to otherwise dark areas.

 

And yes, I also hand-held a china ball on a c-stand arm near the lens as fill. It takes a bit of choreography with the steadicam operator, lamp operator, and cable wrangler to make it all work.

[Sean Stiegemeier]

So if I got the pole cats, do I need to rent anything else to attatch lights to them?

[J. Lamar King IMPOSTOR]

I once saw polecats used in a verticle fashion with the fixtures at the tip top. They were easy to hide behind plants and in one case an actor stood in front of one in the center of the room. But we only saw him from the chest down.

[Matthew Moore]

So if I got the pole cats, do I need to rent anything else to attatch lights to them?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Mafers, C-Clamps and Magic Arms all work well, but you can basically use anything that one would normally use to hang lights from a grid. I recently used the large size poles, which, at full extension, are nearly 15' long--but at that length, they bow in the middle and are not particularly secure. In my experience, they work best when used in narrower spaces, where you can really get them wedged in nice and tight. And as was also mentioned, they can be (and actually, I think they were originally conceived for) configured vertically and are fairly easy to hide...

[Guest D.Thirugnanasambantham]

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