Slow motion for DV

Rogelio · October 14, 2004

Hi there.

I'm shooting a music video and I'd like to have some slow motion shots. I'm shootingwith a DVX-100A.

I was told to shoot at 24p with the playback music playing 50% faster. The band would be "playing" their instruments a faster pace. The idea is to slow the footage down 50% in post since they were following the music 50% faster, This method is suppose to give the shot a cool slow mo effect.

My question is Does any one have a good a tip on how to sync the footage with the music? Or any other idea on how to shoot slow motion for music videos on DV?

Have a good day

Phil Rhodes · October 15, 2004

Hi,

Don't even bother. Varicam, one of those specialist slow motion cameras, or shoot film - those really are the options and they are all expensive. If you absolutely have to do it, get Twixtor (expensive) or MotionPerfect (Less expensive but less good) and shoot with a 1/96 shutter at 24p, but it's not that great a way to do it.

You can get a slight (one-sixth) slowdown in NTSC by shooting 30i and deinterlacing it; or use an XL1 and avoid deinterlacing, but it's really a workaround.

Sync by eye. It's not that hard.

Phil

Elhanan Matos · October 15, 2004

We (Band Pro) have a High Speed camera which records to hard drives. It can shoot from 10 to 1000 frames per second at HD resolution, and up to 4000 frames per second at SD resolution. The camera is called the Cine Speedcam. It's a very small camera with a one inch CMOS imager and uses 35mm PL mount lenses. If you want to see an example of it check out the Black Eyed Peas music video "Lets get it Started" All the objects falling in the background were shot with this camera. Also the shutter is adjustable up to 1/100,000 of a second.

Phil Rhodes · October 15, 2004

Hi,

Fantastic I'm sure. And probably still cheaper to shoot film!

Phil

phillipjantzen · October 15, 2004

Hi Rogelio,

Vision Research also provides a high speed HD Cam for applications such as yours. The V9.0 will shoot at 1600 x 1200 at 1000fps with an exposure time as low as 1 microsecond. We had released it to the TV / Cinema world at NAB 2004, where it did quite well, taking home several awards (which is not bad, considering I basically walked in with one unannouced). The basic lens mount is a nikon F, but PL and B4 mounts are available.

There is a Pet shop boys video shot by Green Door Films with a v5.0 (1024 x 1024) which I was rather impressed with, and if i had my guess judging by the amount of slow-mo in the video, the whole video was shot with it.

If you would like to know more:

Vision Research

Phil

Jason McKelvey · October 16, 2004

If you are stuck with the DVX100A, why not shoot 30P instead of 24P... that's 6 more frames to work with... the same concept as real slowmo... the more frames you have the smoother the motion. Don't believe me? try slowmo-ing 60i 15fps time lapse footage and put it next to 60i 30fps footage slowed the same amount, see which looks smoother.

Jason

Elhanan Matos · October 16, 2004

Hi Rogelio,
Vision Research also provides a high speed HD Cam for applications such as yours. The V9.0 will shoot at 1600 x 1200 at 1000fps with an exposure time as low as 1 microsecond. We had released it to the TV / Cinema world at NAB 2004, where it did quite well, taking home several awards (which is not bad, considering I basically walked in with one unannouced). The basic lens mount is a nikon F, but PL and B4 mounts are available.

There is a Pet shop boys video shot by Green Door Films with a v5.0 (1024 x 1024) which I was rather impressed with, and if i had my guess judging by the amount of slow-mo in the video, the whole video was shot with it.

If you would like to know more:

Vision Research

Phil

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Phil,

I would love to see your camera in person, I have read about it, but I haven't heard from anyone who has shot with it yet (the V9.0 that is). Where can I see one, and is it possible to arrange for a demonstration?

Elhanan Matos · October 16, 2004

Fantastic I'm sure. And probably still cheaper to shoot film!

Actually shooting with the Cine Speedcam is considerably cheaper than shooting film when you add up the cost of the camera, the film, and the processing.

Bob Hayes · October 16, 2004

I?m pretty ignorant in the post area but I would think if you record your speed up sync track onto you dvx 100a you would already be sunk up. All you would need to do is lay down your original music and then stretch your DVX100A video and audio until the audio matches your original. If you put ?bloop? sounds at heads and tails of your master it would even be easier. I would do full takes and try to sync before your edit.

Are many rock videos shot on mini dv these days?

Phil Rhodes · October 16, 2004

Hi,

Well, I've done several on DSR-500, including one which went out on MTV (Interestingly, that's the one that got graded). The problem is that if you make it look good, nobody notices; if you mess it up, you're cursed, so no matter what you do, the effort goes unnoticed.

Phil

Elhanan Matos · October 18, 2004

The V9.0 will shoot at 1600 x 1200 at 1000fps with an exposure time as low as 1 microsecond. We had released it to the TV / Cinema world at NAB 2004, where it did quite well, taking home several awards (which is not bad, considering I basically walked in with one unannouced). The basic lens mount is a nikon F, but PL and B4 mounts are available.

Phillip,

I've been reading about your camera on your website, and it seems very impressive. Can we arrange do side by side comparisons with the V9.0? I think it would be very interesting to compare the two systems, we can hold the event here in Burbank at BandPro, and anybody else who is interested in slow motion is invited to come down and take a look at the cameras.

phillipjantzen · October 20, 2004

Elhanan,

If i could have your contact information i will glady have one of our salesman arrange a demo....

phil

Michael Nash · October 20, 2004

I?m pretty ignorant in the post area but I would think if you record your speed up sync track onto you dvx 100a you would already be sunk up. All you would need to do is lay down your original music and then stretch your DVX100A video and audio until the audio matches your original. If you put ?bloop? sounds at heads and tails of your master it would even be easier. I would do full takes and try to sync before your edit.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah, that's pretty much it. Adding the audio scratch track to the footage is a good call.

Most NLE's have a "fit to fill" function where you select in and out points of your shot, and the system will automatically stretch or compress the length of the footage to fit into a specified hole in your timeline, by duplicating or dropping fileds/frames proportionately. With this method it's best to stick to a mathematically simple speed ratio (like 2:1), so you end up with a smooth frame conversion rate.

If you end up with slight drift between your speed-adjusted footage and the audio, you just end up having to cut around it.

Sivanesan · November 11, 2004

Hi all,

Read somewhere that the slo-mo for sports are shot with normal broadcasting camera with higher shutter speed, which are then played at a different frame rate. This is only a rough idea i have heard. Can somebody discuss much more on this.

Regards

Sivanesan

warzabidul · November 14, 2004

A cheap although effective way of getting slow motion is to do it at post production with the editing software. Choose the rate at which you want to go, de-interlace the video and frame blend. By doing this extra information is added between frames to make for a much smoother slow motion than would be aquired.

This method is effective and does not require the renting of any extra equipment.

Phil Rhodes · November 14, 2004

Hi,

Well, it's not that effective - it doesn't look anything like as good as true slow motion. I wouldn't consider the technique good enough for anything other than live sports, or something like that.

Phil

warzabidul · November 14, 2004

It's better than nothing and it depends on your budget and how far you slow it down.

Elhanan Matos · November 15, 2004

It's better than nothing and it depends on your budget and how far you slow it down.

If you can't do it right, you probably shouldn't be doing it. Bad slow motion is very distracting and hinders the overall project more than it helps.

But thats just my opinion.

Alvin Pingol · November 16, 2004

In my humble opinion, slow motion running at framerates not constant with non-slo-motion material looks tacky. E.g., 24fps film, with a half-speed slo-mo sequence running at 12fps (but printed doubleframe to compensate) looks bad to me compared to that same sequence shot at 48fps (so that non slo-mo and slo-mo both have true 24 frames/sec).

There was a slo-mo sequence in Shyamalan's The Village where they used double frames to slow down the action. I found it distracting, but of course, that's just my taste! ;)