What is the minimum wage for PAs?

Adrian Sierkowski · July 1, 2008

So what if someone who won't pay you won't hire you again?

Better words never spoken IMHO.

Matthew W. Phillips · July 1, 2008

So what if someone who won't pay you won't hire you again?

I don't necessarily agree with this. With the internet and forums, the world (especially the film world) is getting much smaller. Directors, Producers, etc all network on occasion and talk goes around in these circles just like Cinematographers, Grips, PAs, or any other positions do. My recommendation is don't take a job unless you plan to finish it. Quitting can be a dangerous practice, even if you're sure you'll never work for that particular Director or Producer again.

Adrian Sierkowski · July 2, 2008

While I agree with you Matthew, to a point, I think that the counter argument would be that the news around of quitting after not being paid/bad working conditions (as most people I would think on a film are committed to it and won't leave unless something is really amiss) would negate any flak such a quite would cause a crew member. It's important, obviously, to only leave if you have good reason to leave and to be as civil as possible about it. If they still like you afterwards, then you're a master of the interpersonal skills which often precede any really relevant skill in the job market (sad but sometimes very true)

Matthew W. Phillips · July 2, 2008

While I agree with you Matthew, to a point, I think that the counter argument would be that the news around of quitting after not being paid/bad working conditions (as most people I would think on a film are committed to it and won't leave unless something is really amiss) would negate any flak such a quite would cause a crew member.

I can understand if they aren't getting paid what was agreed upon at the beginning of the project. If, however, you agree to do a shoot for no pay and then decide later that you think you deserve to get paid, I think you ought to honor your original agreement and not quit, provided the Producer/Director doesn't go against pre-defined working conditions.

Michele Peterson · July 2, 2008

As I originally said, don't be afraid to quit if they treat you poorly AND don't pay.

MOST people know how to look at both sides of the story. Not paying people speaks volumes in itself to YOUR professionalism. The difference between an amateur/hobbyist and a professional is being paid! If you're unprofessional, how many professional productions are you really going to influence and how seriously will they take you?. There really are two different worlds between the no-pay films and the professional ones. Poor workers will get a bad rep by the pros even quicker, their standards are much higher.

The people who don't pay are obviously biased about saying crew members shouldn't quit. What do you expect for nothing??? Not paying has a lot of risks you take. It's give and take, got to have both in equal amounts.

Andrew Koch · July 2, 2008

I personally have never walked from a shoot and I hope I never have to. That is not to say that it is never warranted. I have been on several shoots in the past that did warrant leaving. It had nothing to do with the money. I knew the money would be crap going in and had already agreed to it. The best reason to leave is when your personal safety is concerned. I was on a set where we had been told what the shooting conditions were to be and they were fine. The conditions were quite different upon arrival. Things were done that threatened my safety and the safety of others. I voiced my concerns but was completely ignored. I didn't leave because I was concerned that word would get around that I was unreliable and difficult to work with. Fortunately, no one was hurt, but I can look back now and realize that I made the wrong decision.

I was VERY new and was afraid to make waves, but that's no excuse. What I should have done is told them that I could not work in this dangerous situation and if they still didn't listen, then I should have walked. Besides, who cares what they think of me. It's not like I would ever want to work for them again. Everyone must have personal boundaries and there are certain things that are just unacceptable. Shooting in a desert with not enough water is grounds for quitting. Don't just leave, tell the production you need water and if they don't take immediate steps to remedy the situation, then you need to leave because you are putting your life at risk and explain that to them. Just an example.

A person should only leave if absolutely necessary, and sometimes it is. Don't jeopardize your health or safety out of fear of some producer badmouthing you.

Michael LaVoie · July 2, 2008

I wouldn't expect an on-set PA to commit to a job for less than $50 a day on a low/no budget indie. Hollywood films tend to be closer to $100 per day but it's taxed and you don't see the money for like 3 months. It's 2 totally different jobs though. On a small indie film, you're backing up almost everyone in every department and learning a lot. On a Hollywood film, you're firewatching props and sitting in traffic lockups. There's often more hands on learning on the indie set and that's typically why one can offer less money cause there is more opportunity to break into a department and get friendlier with technicians. The set technicians are the ones who will pull you onto bigger projects with better pay rates. If you're open, willing to learn and have a good attitude. You'll get more future work from the crew then from the producers or director.

Edited July 2, 2008 by Michael LaVoie

Matthew W. Phillips · July 2, 2008

MOST people know how to look at both sides of the story. Not paying people speaks volumes in itself to YOUR professionalism. The difference between an amateur/hobbyist and a professional is being paid! If you're unprofessional, how many professional productions are you really going to influence and how seriously will they take you?. There really are two different worlds between the no-pay films and the professional ones. Poor workers will get a bad rep by the pros even quicker, their standards are much higher.

The people who don't pay are obviously biased about saying crew members shouldn't quit. What do you expect for nothing??? Not paying has a lot of risks you take. It's give and take, got to have both in equal amounts.

Michele, I think you may be letting your mouth write a check that your rear cant cash. Before you start talking about the "unprofessionals" that didn't pay their people, think of some of the past heavy weights that are included in that list. The two that come to my mind first are Robert Rodriguez (El Mariachi) and Jared Hess (Peluca). I would say Rodriguez case is ever more extreme since he shot a feature instead of just an 6-8 minute short.

Michele Peterson · July 2, 2008

Michele, I think you may be letting your mouth write a check that your rear cant cash. Before you start talking about the "unprofessionals" that didn't pay their people, think of some of the past heavy weights that are included in that list. The two that come to my mind first are Robert Rodriguez (El Mariachi) and Jared Hess (Peluca). I would say Rodriguez case is ever more extreme since he shot a feature instead of just an 6-8 minute short.

I never said people can't move up. You need to read more carefully! Everyone is an amateur before going pro.

But how many crew members that work to make a living jump between the worlds of paying an not? At most someone who's made it will do a gig for a charity or such. People like Rodriguez talk about getting friends to help him, not hiring people without pay.

Edited July 2, 2008 by Michele Peterson

Jamie Metzger · July 2, 2008

ANY RATE on ANY SET is negotiable. You can try to ask for more, and they can say yes or no. You can also not take the job. Everything in film is a decision.

Matthew W. Phillips · July 2, 2008

People like Rodriguez talk about getting friends to help him, not hiring people without pay.

Sure he had some friends but not everyone who helped him were friends. He mentioned that one of his cast was actually a local news reporter that didn't like him. To curb the tension in the town, he offered the guy a role which he accepted. Even the local police helped out for nothing.

One final note and then I'm done with this thread...if not paying people is so bad, why am I up to my neck in people willing to do all of this for free? Do people enjoy "being taken advantage of?" I guess all that matters are the individuals involved. You may not work for free but for everyone like you, there are 50 that aren't. I'm glad of that too, not because I want to take advantage, but because it's people like them that help us create projects that otherwise would be fiscally impossible. I applaud my crew and I would never look at them as naive or foolish.

Brad Grimmett · July 2, 2008

if not paying people is so bad, why am I up to my neck in people willing to do all of this for free? Do people enjoy "being taken advantage of?"

People certainly DON'T like being taken advantage of, but a lot of people are willing to work for free in exchange for experience. If at any point they feel that they are being abused, they should leave. Screw anyone that thinks someone working for free owes the person they're working for something. They don't. Just by paying them nothing, you are telling them that that is what they're worth to you. If they, or their work, was worth more to you, then you'd be paying them. It's pretty obvious.

You may not work for free but for everyone like you, there are 50 that aren't.

Ah, the mantra of the cheap producer! "If you won't do it for free, there is someone else that will". You get what you pay for, and you pay for what you get. If someone working for nothing bails on you, I doubt there are many people that would have much sympathy for you. Afterall, you've shown them that they're worth nothing. Do you expect that your project would be worth any more to them?

Producers who care about their projects also care about the people that are working on their projects.