Tim Wu Posted August 15, 2008 Share Posted August 15, 2008 Hey everyone! First time poster here~ I'm going to be DP on a short film this summer, shooting on 16mm. It takes place entirely at night. The main shot I'm concerned with now is a Glidecam shot that follows the main character as he walks from a van across the street to the front of a house. Of the various lighting techniques I've read so far, ideally I'd rent balloon light, but I hear they run close to $1000 a day. So it's a little out of the budget. I came across a set up where a bead board is a attached via duck bill to an arm, which is attached to the combo stand that's raised as high up at possible. The board is angled around 45 degrees towards the ground. A par is then sat on the ground on a pigeon stand or the like, and shot up toward the bead board. Sounds like a very cost-effective solution, but I was wondering what strength hmi par is recommended for this? This light will serve as general ambiance and back-light. For a fill, I'm considering somebody hollywooding a LitePanel at an opposite angle, walking with me as I shoot. Any suggestions? Thanks everyone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Parnell Posted August 16, 2008 Share Posted August 16, 2008 (edited) Trying to light such a large area i'm unsure that this would be the most effective way of doing this. While this method is quite effective for close ups, but from what you described your shot is covering a fairly large area. Also, for us to suggest what lamp you need, we need to know what stock your shooting and what stop you want to achieve. Theres a big difference to what you will need if you are shooting 250D at f4 or 500T at f2.8. Edited August 16, 2008 by Matthew Parnell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Rakoczy Posted August 16, 2008 Share Posted August 16, 2008 As far as Moonlight goes, bounce two 9Lights off two 12x Grifflons (spread apart a bit) using 1/2 Blue on the Lights... create contrast by using Tungsten as incandescent accents. You really need just a touch of Moonlight as the rest can be motivated from Street Lights/ Porch Lights etc... depending on your Format/ Stock you might get away with one 9Light. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Wu Posted August 16, 2008 Author Share Posted August 16, 2008 Is there a stock that you guys would recommend for night shoots like these? I know the director is given an allotment for the class, but he doesn't know what stock is provided yet. So it might be our choice~ And 9Lights? Like a maxibrute? Also, if you guys have any other suggestions on lighting a scene like this, do let me know! I'm all ears. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Rakoczy Posted August 16, 2008 Share Posted August 16, 2008 I would recommend Kodak's new 7219. Call them.. (323-464-6131) and ask for their info Packet with info on all their Stocks including any DVDs. They have a great DVD out on 72/ 5219 (500t). I normally do not go faster than 7217 (200t) because I really like to deliver a glossy, tight Grain 35mm (like) Image. Of course, subject dictates so if a ton of Grain is desired that is a different story. The new 19 Stock looks fantastic and I plan to use it in a couple weeks on a Night Shoot. Yes, 9Lights are Maxi Bruts (about $135 each per day). Tim , where do you live? If it is in the US, feel free to call me (see link below) and leave your phone number. I will be happy to call you tonight.... or tomorrow night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. Lamar King IMPOSTOR Posted August 17, 2008 Share Posted August 17, 2008 I don't know what your budget is exactly but you can set up a 'poor man's condor' for less than a balloon for sure. Do it by running an 8x Ultra bounce top stick on two Mombo's and hit it with a 12k PAR. Use 500 speed tungsten stock and you are good to go. You can cover a fairly large area with this setup and get about a T1.4 to a T2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Wu Posted August 17, 2008 Author Share Posted August 17, 2008 Ooh, thanks everyone! Any suggestions on the fill? If you check out this behind-the-scenes clip from the new movie Ghost Town, http://www.traileraddict.com/trailer/ghost...hind-the-scenes 53 seconds into it you see a steadicam shot where a grip is hollywooding an interesting ballon like light. Anyone know what that is? Of course, that kind of kicker may be a little bright considering the scene there is in a city setting, full of lights coming from all sorts of sources. But I plan on the moonlight serving as a backlight primarily. I can have the face fall in and out of darkness as he walks across the street, but any ideas on a gentle fill coming in from opposite the moonlight? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. Lamar King IMPOSTOR Posted August 17, 2008 Share Posted August 17, 2008 Ooh, thanks everyone! Any suggestions on the fill? If you check out this behind-the-scenes clip from the new movie Ghost Town, http://www.traileraddict.com/trailer/ghost...hind-the-scenes 53 seconds into it you see a steadicam shot where a grip is hollywooding an interesting ballon like light. Anyone know what that is? Of course, that kind of kicker may be a little bright considering the scene there is in a city setting, full of lights coming from all sorts of sources. But I plan on the moonlight serving as a backlight primarily. I can have the face fall in and out of darkness as he walks across the street, but any ideas on a gentle fill coming in from opposite the moonlight? That light you see is just a china ball on a boom pole. looks like one of the nicer ones. You can surely use a paper lantern just be sure the globe can't swing around and ignite it! You can create a huge soft ambiance by bouncing an 18 or 12k off the back of a.....well you better PM me some things are trade secrets! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timHealy Posted August 17, 2008 Share Posted August 17, 2008 http://www.traileraddict.com/trailer/ghost...hind-the-scenes 53 seconds into it you see a steadicam shot where a grip is hollywooding an interesting ballon like light. Anyone know what that is? Of course, that kind of kicker may be a little bright considering the scene there is in a city setting, full of lights coming from all sorts of sources. Actually it was an electrician and it was me. It is a small Chimera lantern with a PH 213 I recall. Also if I can recall it really was more for an eyelight than a fill light. Best Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timHealy Posted August 17, 2008 Share Posted August 17, 2008 That light you see is just a china ball on a boom pole. looks like one of the nicer ones. You can surely use a paper lantern just be sure the globe can't swing around and ignite it! You can create a huge soft ambiance by bouncing an 18 or 12k off the back of a.....well you better PM me some things are trade secrets! Trade secrets? C'mon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Wu Posted August 17, 2008 Author Share Posted August 17, 2008 "Actually it was an electrician and it was me. It is a small Chimera lantern with a PH 213 I recall. Also if I can recall it really was more for an eyelight than a fill light. Best Tim" Haha, oh man. Small world~ Thanks! As far as Moonlight goes, bounce two 9Lights off two 12x Grifflons (spread apart a bit) using ... 12 x 12 Grifflons (i assume that's what 12x means), would be hard to raise up and angle down, wouldn't it? Even though it is a general fill, isn't the angle apparent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Chris Keth Posted August 17, 2008 Premium Member Share Posted August 17, 2008 Haha, oh man. Small world~ Thanks! 12 x 12 Grifflons (i assume that's what 12x means), would be hard to raise up and angle down, wouldn't it? Even though it is a general fill, isn't the angle apparent? That's no problem if you have a key grip who's worth even half his salt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Wu Posted August 17, 2008 Author Share Posted August 17, 2008 Haha, well in any instance, ruby 7 vs maxibrute? a more direct beam would mean a stronger bounce, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiarash Sadigh Posted August 17, 2008 Share Posted August 17, 2008 Ooh, thanks everyone! Any suggestions on the fill? If you check out this behind-the-scenes clip from the new movie Ghost Town, http://www.traileraddict.com/trailer/ghost...hind-the-scenes 53 seconds into it you see a steadicam shot where a grip is hollywooding an interesting ballon like light. Anyone know what that is? Of course, that kind of kicker may be a little bright considering the scene there is in a city setting, full of lights coming from all sorts of sources. But I plan on the moonlight serving as a backlight primarily. I can have the face fall in and out of darkness as he walks across the street, but any ideas on a gentle fill coming in from opposite the moonlight? You may want to consider a small DC-run HMI, like Arri pocket par or a K5600 Joker Bug...they can both get equipped with pancakes like that.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Rakoczy Posted August 17, 2008 Share Posted August 17, 2008 Kiarash.. a Joker for Moonlight on a Street Scene??? DC????????? Huh? Chris, I like your response... Tim had better hunker down with a 'real' Gaffer.. who know some 'real' Grips... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Chris Keth Posted August 17, 2008 Premium Member Share Posted August 17, 2008 Chris, I like your response... Tim had better hunker down with a 'real' Gaffer.. who know some 'real' Grips... I can't quite tell if there's sarcasm there or not. :blink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Rakoczy Posted August 17, 2008 Share Posted August 17, 2008 I am totally serious.... no sarcasm intended. btw Tim.. all Light (angles) are apparent... one only has to look for the shadow... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Chris Keth Posted August 17, 2008 Premium Member Share Posted August 17, 2008 (edited) I am totally serious.... no sarcasm intended. btw Tim.. all Light (angles) are apparent... one only has to look for the shadow... OK, I wasn't quite sure. I basically meant that raising and rigging 12-bys isn't a big concern if you have at least a semi-experienced grip on the crew. They'll also know how to rig ropes to adjust it so you don't have to stem everything down to change the tilt. I should also add that if you're considering this approach, Tim, to make sure it's done safely. It's easy to raise and rig a 12x when it's calm but in even a little wind, it can become dangerous easily. Edited August 17, 2008 by Chris Keth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Wu Posted August 18, 2008 Author Share Posted August 18, 2008 Yeah, that was my main concern. I'm not sure how windy the location gets, but better safe than sorry. I'll probably go for several smaller grifflons as opposed to a couple gigantic ones~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timHealy Posted August 18, 2008 Share Posted August 18, 2008 (edited) m Edited August 18, 2008 by timHealy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timHealy Posted August 18, 2008 Share Posted August 18, 2008 Kiarash.. a Joker for Moonlight on a Street Scene??? DC????????? Huh? Chris, I like your response... Tim had better hunker down with a 'real' Gaffer.. who know some 'real' Grips... He was simply talking about using an HMI or Joker in a Chimera powered by a battery belt. best Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Rakoczy Posted August 18, 2008 Share Posted August 18, 2008 (edited) He was simply talking about using an HMI or Joker in a Chimera powered by a battery belt. best Tim Tim, I guess if you can get all you need rather quickly that is a good way to have a 'roaming' fill... tho gelled Tungsten can go all night... I could see certain applications for the Battery Belt-Joker but I'd recommend large bounced Sources that will burn all night for a 'Street scene'. Tim (Wu) , for the most part if you can fly a 6x... you can fly a 12x... (a huge bounce starts at 20x). I would have two of each on hand... the 12xs could work the bulk of the area and a 6x/ 10k could be on standby for any area that needs a little help.. like near the Car at the head of the shot. It will also be easier to maneuver this 6x Package so that it is not seen in any of the Car windows. Think about DOF.. are you bringing in a top notch AC so you can shoot at a 2... or less???... and have usable footage? A little extra 'punch' on your Lighting can make all the difference in the world! What happens when the Director says 'hey, I got a bright idea, let's roll at 36 or 48 and really s-t-r-e-t-c-h out this walk'. Then what? Going in lite will leave you no where to go. You are much better off Lighting a larger area than what the Director 'says' you'll need and Lighting to a Stop 'deeper' than what you think you'll need. You can always add a ND3 or 6 or whatever when you want to open up but I'd feel much safer Lighting to a t4 (or 2.8 minimum) and give yourself, your Focus Puller and your Director some breathing room... not to mention your Lens and Stock. This all depend on where you want to expose on the Curve and what your Budget is and if you will have a (or any) real Crew. One can go from a single roaming Chimera to a Musco.. For me, cheap (and great) Moonlight for a 'walk across the street' is a couple 12xs with 9Lights and 1/2 Blue... Edited August 18, 2008 by David Rakoczy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Wu Posted August 18, 2008 Author Share Posted August 18, 2008 Thanks David! I'll talk to the director and work out the specifics of the scene. As you know, everything is still in early early preproduction, so I actually don't know what my budget is yet. I'll start compiling a wishlist of this set-up though~ I'll create other threads for other scenes, haha. Oh, and in terms of bouncing light, since the maxibrute will be bounced, why not the ruby 7 over the maxibrute? wouldn't a more focused beam mean a stronger bounce? (sorry if this is an obvious question. i've never worked with either of these lights, just know of them) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Rakoczy Posted August 18, 2008 Share Posted August 18, 2008 (edited) 9Lights have two more Globes than the Ruby7. You should use Medium / Wide Globes to Fill up the Bounce... not have one sharp Hot Point in the middle... the idea is to create a 'large Source'.. You are not lighting table top.. or a scene in a kitchen.. you are doing a Night Street Scene (hypothetically speaking) .. Same with setting 4xs in front of Lights.. you want the Light to 'fill' the frame as much as possible whether it be 4x 6x 12x 20x or whatever. Of course, there are exceptions.. this not being one of them. For $250, you'll get a lot of Light out of two 9Lights! btw.. if you (still) need more Light, change those Grifflons to Silks and Punch the 9Lights 'thru' the Silks.... not bounce... Edited August 18, 2008 by David Rakoczy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Wu Posted August 18, 2008 Author Share Posted August 18, 2008 9Lights have two more Globes than the Ruby7. You should use Medium / Wide Globes to Fill up the Bounce... not have one sharp Hot Point in the middle... the idea is to create a 'large Source'.. You are not lighting table top.. or a scene in a kitchen.. you are doing a Night Street Scene (hypothetically speaking) .. Same with setting 4xs in front of Lights.. you want the Light to 'fill' the frame as much as possible whether it be 4x 6x 12x 20x or whatever. Of course, there are exceptions.. this not being one of them. For $250, you'll get a lot of Light out of two 9Lights! btw.. if you (still) need more Light, change those Grifflons to Silks and Punch the 9Lights 'thru' the Silks.... not bounce... I was considering that too (the silks). I saw some behind the scenes footage of Knocked Up and that was how they did their moonlight. which was a set up that was a too bright for the mood that my particular scene is going for. To punch through instead of bounce would mean I'd have to get the lights up to the height of the silks though... and haha, I know, I know, a proper grip will make it work, but still, being a student production and all, I'd like to cut down on all possible risks~ such as a maxi-brute extended 25feet in the air. At lease by bouncing, I wouldn't need to raise it as high... I wish we had the budget for balloons, haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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