"What else could I do?"

[Guest]

Richard,

 

Kids?!

 

At the moment it strikes me that bringing new people into this particular world is an act of cruelty!

 

P

 

What do you want me to do? Send them back for a refund?

 

Imagine bringing children into the world during the dark ages and the black death, or during the great depression, or during the London blitz. There have been a hundred worse times to be alive than now.

 

And look on the bright side....very shortly Bush will be gone from the world stage, I would not be surprised if the world doesn't see a second Renaissance once the great idiot is gone.

 

R,

[Hal Smith]

The best advice I know of has two parts.

 

1. Do something difficult for a career or business.

 

2. Do something for a living that you enjoy.

 

No. 1's point is that the easy things are already overpopulated with the lazy and the get-rich-quick crowd. By picking something difficult you eliminate 99% of your potential competition. For instance the one thing you don't want to be is one of the thousands of wannabe's running around with low-end prosumer video gear thinking they'll hit it rich any day now.

 

No. 2's point is that if you do something you really enjoy, you'll never resent the hours spent at work and the time spent on your own learning more about your field. If you're in a career that you truly love you'll find that communicates well to current and potential clientele. You will find you have to watch out for the occasional jerk who will deliberately take advantage of someone who loves their work. But with time you'll learn to spot them a mile away.

[Walter Graff]

DOP Salary Range: $00.00 - $1 million.

 

R,

 

 

 

Or said more specific:

 

75% of people who call themselves DP and work full time at it in every genre from corporate to features the average is about $30,000-150,000

Another 10% $150,000-250,000

And 8% $250,000-300,000

And 4% 300,000+

And the last 3% 600,000+

 

The key is that it is a very small field, and takes years of work to get the title.

[Michele Peterson]

I've thought that being a fireman sounds intriguing

 

There are a lot of volunteer opportunities around the country for firefighting. Dept's in SoCal require you to be at least be an EMT (so you can be dual function), and most want paramedics. I got trained and certified as an EMT because it was something in life I always wanted to do, so I did it and crossed it off my to-do list. I volunteer for charity events and find it incredibly rewarding to connect to people in a way that it is near impossible to do while making a film. It opened a lot of doors I never expected. I meet a former grip that is now a firefighter and she has urged me to get into the fire dept if I ever burn out. As soon as people I already knew from productions found out I became an EMT, the set medic job offers were lining up at my door.

 

With the hours we keep during production, it can be very hard to find time for new things and hobbies outside of film. It's critical to have interests outside of film. It also makes one a more well rounded person with life experiences you can bring to a production. Next on my list is scuba diving.

[Annie Wengenroth]

I guess I'm of a rare breed. I'm *not* working as an AC just to become an op or a DP someday. I'm working as an AC because I love working as an AC. I have to figure that most people see it as a stepping stone, but I just don't...I see it as a craft in and of itself. I enjoy it because sometimes it seems very simple to the point where it becomes kinda Zen. Yet there are many things about it that not everyone knows how to do.

 

It's cool to be in a position right now where I feel like I'm seeing the full application of the motion picture film camera from start to finish...not only am I putting the film in the mag and controlling, to a degree, what the image on that film looks like as it goes through the mag, but I'm taking the mag apart and getting to see how it's made and what's required to make it work. I love the craft and the gear. Sometimes I'm not so crazy about the people and the politics, but I guess we all have our weaknesses, and it's a hell of a lot easier to deal with them when you're self-employed, than when you're answering to a huge corporation who hires you 9 to 5 Monday through Friday. Ultimately, you would have to hold a gun to my head to get me to leave this industry entirely...I can't imagine doing anything else with my life.

 

As critical as it is to plan ahead and be open-minded about the future, I think it's also important to be in the moment and not worry about what will happen when people stop shooting film (which was supposed to happen 10 years ago, by the way :P ) or when the economy takes such a nosedive, that nobody wants to make movies.

 

A second Renaissance would be great. Having more than one set of skills would finally be back in fashion and people would, god forbid, be rewarded for their creative thinking instead of questioned or even fired. Who knows what will happen. Like I said, even though being a freelancer during hard times means being caught off-guard financially, at least we are on our guard mentally...after all, we're constantly in job-hunt mode, and those cubicle kids aren't.

 

I feel like we've had this conversation....circa the WGA strike of '07. What's next?? :-/

[Saul Rodgar]

I guess I'm of a rare breed. I'm *not* working as an AC just to become an op or a DP someday. I'm working as an AC because I love working as an AC. I have to figure that most people see it as a stepping stone, but I just don't...I see it as a craft in and of itself.

 

I have much respect for people like you. If we all were DP's, then who would keep our cameras running? :lol: Seriously though, people like you keep the world running while the rest of us daydream -or are too busy hacking each other up for the top spot. ;)

Edited October 13, 2008 by Saul Rodgar

[Jamie Metzger]

I hope you don't mind if i chime in, but couldn't help read this thread and wonder to myself if i'm making the right move in my life.

 

I make almost $100K a yr and i'm 28 with no degree, i work for a pvt aerospace company, but i'm leaving all this to pursue what i believe to be my dream. I hav no experience and i think at my age that i've got a late start in cinematography. When i read these posts by you all and as i can see all of you are very versed in film and have probably done great things in the past, i start to question if i'm making the right choice. I truely believe i am, but again, like i said i'm worried. This is a new chapter in my life, and the "If's" tend to get the best of me. 10 years ago or so i worked with Cirque du Soleil and i thought that was the coolest and best job i had ever had, so far it still is, i've also fought in Iraq when i was in the service for six yrs. Military was good to me, but i would never go back.

 

I know i'm about to venture into a difficult industry, but it can't be any harder than living in a tent for a year in a hostile environment, or can it? I know it's not for the faint of heart...

 

Sorry to butt into you're thread.

 

 

 

JJ

 

Do it up, and do it big!

 

I'll take your $100K job, work for a few years and then use that money to bring work into the bay area.

[JJ Garcia]

Do it up, and do it big!

 

I'll take your $100K job, work for a few years and then use that money to bring work into the bay area.

 

 

You can have my job, if you know how to work on the Egress ( Ejection Seats) systems on bombers or fighter aircraft. Trust me though, their is alot of political bs in this biz, and way too much micro-managing.

 

I will try and do it up big!

[Brian Dzyak]

You can have my job, if you know how to work on the Egress ( Ejection Seats) systems on bombers or fighter aircraft. Trust me though, their is alot of political bs in this biz, and way too much micro-managing.

 

I will try and do it up big!

 

 

Funny. :) You'll be prepared for those times when you're lighting a room and there are five to ten "Executives" as well as Actor's "people" all standing around the monitor trying to justify their paychecks, making stupid and inappropriate suggestions about angles, lighting, and direction. If you know how to stand back and let them fight it out in typical passive-aggressive fashion, you'll go far. It's about pretending to care what they say, moving something only slightly, then doing it correctly despite it all. It's a funny business sometimes.

[Jamie Metzger]

You can have my job, if you know how to work on the Egress ( Ejection Seats) systems on bombers or fighter aircraft. Trust me though, their is alot of political bs in this biz, and way too much micro-managing.

 

I will try and do it up big!

A good suggestion would be to have enough money in the bank and savings for atleast 6 months. Business can gry up for a few months, and it can also take you a while (read: years) to get paid calls. Make sure you don't go broke!

[Keith Walters]

Richard,

 

Kids?!

 

At the moment it strikes me that bringing new people into this particular world is an act of cruelty!

 

P

Oh come on Phil.

Thousands of babies are born here in Australia every year despite the overwhelming liklihood of them being fatally stung or bitten, or dying of heatstroke or dehydration, or being fatally injured by a stray boomerang or carried off by carpet snakes, crocodiles, bullants or dingoes. Nobody thinks anything of it.

Like Richard says, things can and have been worse. As long as we produce a net gain of at least 2.1 babies per 2 adults, we'll be fine.

[Steven Parker]

I guess I'm of a rare breed. I'm *not* working as an AC just to become an op or a DP someday. I'm working as an AC because I love working as an AC.

 

That's wonderful and quite frankly, amazing. Excellent ACs are an endangered species as so many do see it as a stepping stone. Seems to be little appreciation left for the art of pulling focus. Rare, indeed.

 

I have always said, when the whole movie thing crashes and burns for me, I'll open a diner in a little backwater town somewhere... pics from my adventures in the movies everywhere, and stills from the shows... no more angry dept heads or penny-pinching producers asking for more while offering less... just make some cheeseburgers, serve some chili, maybe have a drink in the evening in my cabin (of course it has a jacuzzi on the deck under the bright, bright stars) and relive the glory days....

 

...hmmm, wonder what I'm waiting for?

[Brian Dzyak]

That's wonderful and quite frankly, amazing. Excellent ACs are an endangered species as so many do see it as a stepping stone. Seems to be little appreciation left for the art of pulling focus. Rare, indeed.

 

I have always said, when the whole movie thing crashes and burns for me, I'll open a diner in a little backwater town somewhere... pics from my adventures in the movies everywhere, and stills from the shows... no more angry dept heads or penny-pinching producers asking for more while offering less... just make some cheeseburgers, serve some chili, maybe have a drink in the evening in my cabin (of course it has a jacuzzi on the deck under the bright, bright stars) and relive the glory days....

 

...hmmm, wonder what I'm waiting for?

 

Funny you mention the restaurant thing. One of the true joys I have in life is cooking. It's the one thing I do in life that doesn't really involve electronics. :D

 

Here is a link to a pic of a brownie pie I made last week: http://www.dzyak.com/browniepie2.jpg I've worked in a restaurant (back in High School) so I know how hard that life is too. But there's something about cooking and baking that relaxes me. Maybe I missed my true calling.

[Paul Bruening]

Oh come on Phil.

Thousands of babies are born here in Australia every year despite the overwhelming liklihood of them being fatally stung or bitten, or dying of heatstroke or dehydration, or being fatally injured by a stray boomerang or carried off by carpet snakes, crocodiles, bullants or dingoes. Nobody thinks anything of it.

Like Richard says, things can and have been worse. As long as we produce a net gain of at least 2.1 babies per 2 adults, we'll be fine.

 

Ever seen Welcome to Woop Woop?

[Annie Wengenroth]

And that's why I <3 this forum; because in a single thread, we can discuss boomerangs, population control, pies, the economy, airplanes, and of course, cinematography. :lol:

[Phil Rhodes]

Annie;

 

I was once treated to a very nice dinner in LA by a career 1st AC and his wife. He'd met her while working on a very big movie in Hawaii and was clearly massively successful, with an IMdB credit to make the best of us cringe.

 

Even before that it was clear to me that ACing could be an excellent career choice; there's probably more regular employment in the grade anywhere in the world, but certainly in the US at least it can be turned into a serious, fulfilling and entirely top grade career.

 

We salute you!

 

P

[Daniel Sheehy]

To return to the original question of the topic..

 

It's an issue I've thought about often. And one I've actually recently acted on. I resigned and migrated to Australia after 5 years doing news, advertising and documentary camera work. In addition to working as a lighting cameraman, I was a stills photographer doing everything from product photography to corporate portraiture to concerts.

 

But after 5 years I realised that I didn't particularly enjoy working in advertising, that I didn't really want to go back to work for an under resourced TV station and that though I really enjoyed doing photography, I wanted to do projects that actually interested me.

So I bought a digital SLR, quit my job and moved to another country to study Engineering, with the hope of working in the renewable energy sector some time in the future..

I'm currently waiting to hear which (if any) Uni will take me, and in the mean time I'm working part time crewing for a sound engineer in Brisbane, with an eye on freelance photography (once my camera comes back from Canon Sydney..).

 

I'll be 30 by the time I graduate, but it's never too late to start doing what interests you. A good friend of mine didn't discover his passion in life till he was at least 50, and he'd done it ALL by then - hiking the Himalayas, cycling from Germany down to India, commercial and military diving, flying, sailing, diplomatic postings and engineering. Now he lives a quiet life as a pearl carver in a quiet corner of Fiji.

 

So long as we remain passionate, it doesn't really matter what we do. :)

[Paul Bruening]

May I poll the group? How many have given thought to joining the military to solve their financial woes?

[Adrian Sierkowski]

Been there, done that, got the mental problems and weird injections.

[JJ Garcia]

I've also been there and done that, being in the military is what is helping me pay for school. I was able to pay off my debts, but now i'm back in debt:(

 

Yaay for chilli mac!!

Edited October 15, 2008 by JJ Garcia

[Steven Parker]

Here is a link to a pic of a brownie pie I made last week

 

oh man that looks DELISH...

 

baking and pastries are something I'm just now getting into; I've been doing French country and Indian lately (western Indian, Rajasthan, etc)...

 

yeah, there's definitely something wonderful about creating without electronics, and hearing the hmmphs and gasps of your guests...

 

I've thought about the military... but I'm too old and set in my ways - not sure they'd have me!

Edited October 15, 2008 by Steven Parker

[Brian Dzyak]

oh man that looks DELISH...

 

Thank you! Yeah, I can light an interview in less than 20 minutes, but nobody really gives two sh**s about that. But when I make a tasty dinner and put some time into presentation, THAT generates a genuine response.

 

I've been feeling very burned out lately with my job. I do enjoy solving problems and creating a great looking frame, but the politics and clueless people I have to work with sometimes are taking their toll.

 

There's something attractive about creating a meal from scratch and getting fairly rapid feedback about it. The stuff we shoot isn't edited for days, weeks, or months, and most people don't ever see it at all. Hell, I've probably only seen a very small percentage of the stuff I've ever shot. There isn't a lot of payoff in that way, so it does become a situation where the satisfaction has to be on the day when it's being shot. Sometimes that's enough, but too often, it is just another day and another paycheck.

[Ira Ratner]

Give me a price for shipment to Florida and a PayPal account to make the payment:

 

I'll take 5 pies, please.

Edited October 15, 2008 by Ira Ratner

[Luc Allein]

If it makes anyone feel better:

 

I just moved BACK after almost quitting AC stuff. I was slightly home sick, broke, confused and after I had begged and grovelled to get on Indiana Jones & then had it taken away merely for political reasons? (long story) Heartbroken. Plus the writer's strike was looming. I was working at Panavision and even though I loved my job, I was kind of burned out.

 

So I moved back home to upstate New York, where I always hated and wanted to get out of anyway. I was and am the biggest film nerd and film fanatic I know, and wanted all my life to come work in movies but found it to be a bit of a rude awakening. After just a few months and getting my old shitty factory job back (there are NO jobs in Buffalo, it's a dying city) the "what the **(obscenity removed)** did I just do's" started to creep in. It got worse when I would go to the movies and have to stay for the credits to see all the camera people I knew. It got more worse when I would be sitting on my lunch break in this dingy factory, reading American Cinematographer and reading stories and seeing pictures of guys I had just worked with not a year before. "There's Greg Luntzel. Oh, look, Pat McCardle made it into that shot, cool...." I did my taxes and filed returns for days I loaded on commercials, non union, and made $850 in 12 hours. My job I had currently I made $500. Per week. So I definitely started to say "I really REALLY miss camera/film production...."

 

It was the old "you dont know what you got til it's gone" expression. I just moved back a month ago, and even though Im stuck regular pa-ing at the moment, Im just itching to get my hands on a 35mm camera again. I couldnt even imagine myself doing anything else for a living now. I must have been insane. I guess it's good cause it really helped me to get my head on straight and realize that even though it's a crazy business and really sucks sometimes, it's what I wanna do.

[Annie Wengenroth]

It's really, really weird to read your post, Luc. I used to work at CSC- yay rental house alumni! I am at an interesting crossroads in my own career and actually had hit a similar point a couple months ago when I was down in Georgia. The strike screwed me too...it screwed all of us. This industry is not what it was 10, 20, 50 years ago...and it's kinda heartbreaking to be realizing that now.

 

In all honesty, I'm starting to feel differently about ACing thanks to HD, and it kinda weirds me out. I'm realizing that I really like film cameras. I want to learn how these beautiful machines work...and how to take them apart and repair them and put them back together. I want to learn from the people who've been doing it since before I was born....before it's too late and it all goes away. I thought of the first time I saw an Arriflex 16S and how the hair stood up on my arms and my heart started pounding and it was the coolest little machine I'd laid eyes on....the moment when I fell in love....hearing the camera run...watching the shutter and the registration pin and pulldown claw and falling in love. It sounds ridiculous, but that's what it was....this intense, huge, "THIS IS IT!!!" that I had not experienced before with anything else I've ever done in my life. It was not so much, "I want to make an image with this"...it was, "How does it work and what does it look like on the inside?" I know it will take time, work, and money, and dumb luck to boot...engineering school...starting "at the bottom" again to an extent....but I'm truly considering getting serious about being a film camera repair technician and putting ACing on the back burner.

 

That way, when digital cameras rule the industry, I can be one of the last to understand where it all started...to help bridge the gap between the past and the future. And one of the last to help keep film alive. My strengths have always been with the gear. So maybe it's time to just run with it. Or maybe it's a phase like the time I had 28 piercings and a mohawk or the time I was 10 and absolutely was going to be an archaeologist when I grew up? I still don't know, but I want to go with it while it's on my mind and see what happens.

 

I guess it's dark days and uncertainty for some of us, but despite this, we *are* witnessing a big change in the entertainment industry and there's something to be said for that. Nobody knows what will happen next with anything. So if there's ever a time to start understanding (to paraphrase Brian's book) What I Really Want To Do.... then I guess this is it, huh. :shrug:

 

Um, cool, so, let's all hold hands now and sing Kum Ba Yah or whatever. I promise the next post I make will be more funny, with less words.