I'd like to shoot you

[Jon Allen]

When you guys (and gals) go to shoot on location, be it a school classroom or airport, when you're asking permission to "shoot" what do you say?

Not "I'd like to come to your classroom and shoot, is that ok?"

I normally say either "record" or "film". I try to stay as simple as possible, to avoid misunderstandings about what I plan on doing.

Any other ways of handling situations like this?

[David Mullen ASC]

Well, obviously you want to be careful how you phrase things around non-film people. We usually ask to speak to whoever is in charge of giving permission to film a movie at that location. Then you talk to that person, explain the project, etc. But often that is advance work done by the location manager / scout. By the time I see it, the owners are already aware. But sometimes you do suddenly come across a cool location as a group and find yourself knocking on some stranger's door. But usually you let the location person do the talking.

[Jon Allen]

So either I become the location manager or I tote the real loc manager everywhere?

[David Mullen ASC]

It's a good idea to have one person in charge of dealing with property owners, school principals, etc. You don't want, as a director, to get calls asking about renegotiating fees, parking vehicles, etc. It should all flow through the locations person.

[Bill Totolo]

Going out and shooting b-roll usually means just that for me. No permits, no pre-negotiated anything. The producer is usually a female about ten years younger than I am and too intimidated to talk to the surly shop owner/rest. mgr/fill in the blank.

 

I try to disarm them with the name of the show I'm working on. If they've heard of the show or the host that usually gets me in the door. If you have to spend more than 5 minutes convincing them or bringing them up to speed you should start thinking about another location.

 

If I'm shooting something independently for myself I arrive at the location weeks in advance, ask to speak to the owner, manager or PR firm in charge and start from there. I?m as up front and honest as possible, explaining the whole time that I have adequate insurance a small crew and lighting equipment that will not cause fire or harm. It?s amazing how savvy people are in LA. They?ll want to know these things.

[Guest dpforum1968]

I only found this to be an issue when I was a member of the US media and I covered the 1992 presidential campaign as a "camera guy." That was Bill's first year, oh how I miss Bill...I even have his signed book!

 

But I digress, we where told not to use terms like, "Ok shoot the President!"

 

Seems the secret service might get the terms confused and shoot you instead. Then of course there where those who used the word "shoot" as an explative in place of "sh-t." A few of those guys got hauled off in cuffs.

 

If you where to say, "Did you get a good shot of President Bush?" (Sr not Jr, this was 92 remember). You had to make sure and emphasize the "of" so the feds didn't think you said "at" instead. A few shooters made that mistake and have been in a federal pen ever since.

 

Oh and when I say "shooters" I mean guys that shoot video, not assassins or guys that drink a lot from little glasses.

 

Gee you can see how all of this can get confusing?

 

DC

[Jon Allen]

Sometimes when I'm talking to family about what I do at work and they start using jargon like "shooting" I like to point my index fingers and wave my hands in the air and pretend I'm in a spagetti western.

[GeorgeSelinsky]

I guess the best thing that's worked for me is asking very nicely and gently, saying "Would you mind if your image was in this film? It's about...." and then "Could you just sign this release, it's a formality that I need to legally use your image..."

 

- G.

[Guest dpforum1968]

One thing you learn real quick being in the stock footage business.

 

Better to beg forgiveness, than to ask permission :-)

 

DC

[GeorgeSelinsky]

I was taught to always ask in advance of doing anything, because when people are already in the shot, they can extort money from you and so on. You're automatically in a weaker bargaining position.

 

- G.

[Guest dpforum1968]

The reality is that getting money out of people is not easy. It requires people to spend money on lawyers and can take years to settle through the courts. Just because they have a lawyer is no guarantee of success, you can hire lawyers as well.

 

Court rulings can be appealed and go on even longer.

 

I've received lots of "lawyer letters" in my day. My response to them all was, "Ok so sue me in court." Guess how many have? Zero. Never heard from them again.

 

That's because of the reasons cited above, court is to too costly and too risky. The burden of proof is 100% on the plaintif.

 

Even if some one gets a judgement the defendant can file for bankruptcy and then they'd get nothing and have no way to pay their legal bills.

 

Even giant corporations avoid the courts, no guarantees for them either.

 

DC

[GeorgeSelinsky]

I've received lots of "lawyer letters" in my day.  My response to them all was, "Ok so sue me in court."  Guess how many have? Zero. Never heard from them again.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yes, but they can also take you to small claims court which doesn't cost much in any fees really (as you can represent yourself), it's more of an expense of time. There are some people out there who have no life and get their kick out of doing these things.

 

- G.

[Guest dpforum1968]

They've got to find you first :-)

 

Even small claims is a huge hassel. Unless you're doing some thing big your odds of being sued are very low.

 

DC

[John Mastrogiacomo]

I edited part of an independent movie for a producer. He stuck me for 5K. I took him to small claims court and won. Then I had to find out where he worked and garnish his wages. After a couple of payments he quit. Then I had to put a lean on his house.

 

This whole process took about 18 months, a lot of time and court appearances. I did it as a matter of principle becuase the producer was such a jerk.

 

As it turns out, he is now making payments to me.

 

Basically, it's not worth the hassle.

 

John Mastrogiacomo

Spectra Video :(

 

They've got to find you first :-)

 

Even small claims is a huge hassel.  Unless you're doing some thing big your odds of being sued are very low.

 

DC

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Phil Rhodes]

Hi,

 

I took someone to the small claims last year. He immediately got the proceedings moves to a court near him, so I had to travel two hours round trip to do paperwork on it. On the day, he didn't turn up, I didn't even have to attend, and they found in my favour in his absence. With fees and costs he now owes me twice what he did originally, but it's been six months and I haven't seen a penny. Getting a judgement enforced is a pain.

 

Phil

[Guest dpforum1968]

Yep, this brings up the next point...even with a judgement actually collecting the money can still be impossible. The person you get the judgement against will naturally dig their heels in even harder and be even more determined not to pay you.

 

In our business the persons credit card clears BEFORE we ship any shots, no exceptions. Plus we always ship FedEx so they have to sign for it and can't claim they never got any thing.

 

Total number of times I've been stiffed in almost 10 years of selling: Zero.

 

If you're doing service work I wouldn't show up on the set unless you get 50% in advance. This is pretty standard in North America if you're the one providing the camera or edit suite.

 

If you're a "worker guy" then it's pretty tough to get 50% up front. Tough situation.

 

DC

[J. Lamar King IMPOSTOR]

I edited part of an independent movie for a producer.  He stuck me for 5K.  I took him to small claims court and won.  Then I had to find out where he worked and garnish his wages.  After a couple of payments he quit.  Then I had to put a lean on his house.

 

This whole process took about 18 months, a lot of time and court appearances.  I did it as a matter of principle becuase the producer was such a jerk.

 

As it turns out, he is now making payments to me.

 

Basically, it's not worth the hassle.

 

John Mastrogiacomo

Spectra Video  :(

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

In states like Texas that whole scenario wouldn't fly. You can get a judge to enter a judgement against someone but there is no way to make them pay. They can go right on ignoring you. You cannot garnish wages and you cannot get leans on property except in extreme cases and certainly they will not arrest anyone. The best you could do is possibly ruin their credit. But these days credit card companies send pre-approved credit cards even to bankruptcy filers which is illegal.

[Guest fstop]

Interesting on the Beverly Hills Cop DVD Martin Brests says the whole Detroit opening was shot from a news van like set up, driving around with a camera poking from behind a curtained window on the van- real guerilla style to capture everyday folk doing what they do. Production also had a local policeman drive with them and after they shot anyone they had to go get permission; after shooting a small child squirting milk from his nose, Brest had to go to a house in the ghetto to get parental consent. Apparently the policeman accompanying Brest told him he'd wait outside and that there was noway in hell he'd go in there with him! Without doubt the boldest piece of filmmaking vaguely associated with Jerry Bruckheimer.