Paul James Savarese Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 SCARLET RELEASE DATE!!! "CONUNDRUM" - Jim Jannard (Red Digital Cinema Owner) "OK... so listen up. You/we want it all. You/we want it now. You/we want us to consider new ideas and incorporate them in the program to make the project better... as SOON as we can. The market is changing and so must we. But you/we don't want any schedule slips... Even with the softening of our urgency (no more 20 hour work days) and all the changes we have made and are making, we are still hoping for late summer of this year to begin the rollout of the new lineup. We have only one wild-card that could irritate all of us... the ASIC. But we are taking every precaution we can to not have that bite us. But please remember that more features and keeping the schedule are mutually exclusive. At some point, you/we have to pick one or the other. After this latest round of changes... we are done. If you want more... there is a price to pay in the schedule. Jim" More at http://sKarlets.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Keith Walters Posted April 2, 2009 Premium Member Share Posted April 2, 2009 MEGO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serge Teulon Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 Excuse me whilst I recover from my violent projectile regurgitation!! Are you serious?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul James Savarese Posted April 2, 2009 Author Share Posted April 2, 2009 I forgot that Panasonic, Sony, and Canon listen to what the customer wants and lets you in on the manufacturing design, process, and schedule. Excuse me whilst I recover from my violent projectile regurgitation!! Are you serious?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serge Teulon Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 I don't mean to offend but are you getting payed for this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul James Savarese Posted April 2, 2009 Author Share Posted April 2, 2009 Not at all. I am just an avid filmmaker and fan of technology! I think what Red is doing is great and this is the Red topic area of cinematography.com. What I posted was simply BIG news for those anticipating Scarlet developments. You know what I find? I find that a lot of people here at cinematography.com are quick on the attack and get their kicks from shitting on other people. If you don't give a poop about Red then why are you reading through these posts and taking the time to comment on them? I don't mean to offend but are you getting payed for this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serge Teulon Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 (edited) Hey Paul, I certainly don't feel that I poop on anyone in here or outside of here.... Don't take my questioning as a representation of my lack of interest in the red. It's part of my job to be up on every single bit of technology that allows me to be the best that I can be in my line of work. Without wanting to get into a massive debate about this, what you are mistaking is that most people who challenge red, is because red is dressed up as the Messiah by the marketing machine. We are told in great cultish language, "you/we want 4k digital....then I/we announce that finally your wishes are answered! The red IS 4K!!!" well, we all know it's not....etc, etc... Without these challenges, red or any other new technology wouldn't improve and serve our needs. Edited April 2, 2009 by Serge Teulon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul James Savarese Posted April 2, 2009 Author Share Posted April 2, 2009 Good point my friend. I agree. :) Hey Paul, I certainly don't feel that I poop on anyone in here or outside of here.... Don't take my questioning as a representation of my lack of interest in the red. It's part of my job to be up on every single bit of technology that allows me to be the best that I can be in my line of work. Without wanting to get into a massive debate about this, what you are mistaking is that most people who challenge red, is because red is dressed up as the Messiah by the marketing machine. We are told in great cultish language, "you/we want 4k digital....then I/we announce that finally your wishes are answered! The red IS 4K!!!" well, we all know it's not....etc, etc... Without these challenges, red or any other new technology wouldn't improve and serve our needs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serge Teulon Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Adrian Sierkowski Posted April 2, 2009 Premium Member Share Posted April 2, 2009 I still want prices for the damned modules etc and to have some idea of the cost of a full kit for the S35 or the 2/3" That's the most annoying bit of all the red marketing this go 'round. I am interested in the camera, but I can't plan on buying one because, well, I have no idea cost/release/anything though I have clients wanting it and asking for it specifically. ok, sorry, had to vent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul James Savarese Posted April 2, 2009 Author Share Posted April 2, 2009 I still want prices for the damned modules etc and to have some idea of the cost of a full kit for the S35 or the 2/3"That's the most annoying bit of all the red marketing this go 'round. I am interested in the camera, but I can't plan on buying one because, well, I have no idea cost/release/anything though I have clients wanting it and asking for it specifically. ok, sorry, had to vent. I hear you there, but most companies announce their product only several weeks before release. I feel like Red is not so much concerned with marketing as they are with delivering what the consumer needs. Jim Jannard's consumer relations is something I believe most companies don't give much attention to. As for the marketing of Red products, the product will speak for itself as it has in the past. I haven't run into many complaining about the Red One. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Drysdale Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 I forgot that Panasonic, Sony, and Canon listen to what the customer wants and lets you in on the manufacturing design, process, and schedule. Most customers don't have a requirement to know the manufacturing design, process, and schedule, they just need a reliable camera that has the right specification for the productions they work on. I suspect the other manufacturers do ask what customers require, they just don't do it on the internet. Many of their customers don't hang out in forums because they deal directly with the manufacturers representatives. I expect which is the best method is open to debate. The RED One came out with a number of flaws which were pointed out at an early stage on-line which might have been more forcefully pointed out in face to face discussions and resulted them not being there at all. However, that's not to say the Sony's and Panasonics perfect, just the demands that broadcasters make and their budgets are have traditionally been larger than indie filmmakers. A lot of the design demands come from the Japanese broadcasters who buy large quantities of camera kit and indies aren't in that particular loop. For this reason Sony etc had problems understanding the much smaller digital cinema market with its demand for 24p. Part of the RED cost savings could be coming using a single sensor instead of the more complex traditional 3 sensor block. It will be interesting to see if the older manufacturers take the single sensor route in the future. I think RED are now big enough to realise that their marketing does rub some people up the wrong way and should know not to take it personally. Many of these people quite happily use the RED kit, working around any weaknesses and ignore the signal to noise ratio of the RED marketing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member John Sprung Posted April 2, 2009 Premium Member Share Posted April 2, 2009 I forgot that Panasonic, Sony, and Canon listen to what the customer wants and lets you in on the manufacturing design, process, and schedule. Indeed they do. Sony invites a dozen or two of us, they bring prototypes and even provide lunch. We had several such opportunities on the BVM-L230. -- J.S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Keith Walters Posted April 2, 2009 Premium Member Share Posted April 2, 2009 SCARLET RELEASE DATE!!! "CONUNDRUM" - Jim Jannard (Red Digital Cinema Owner) "OK... so listen up. You/we want it all. You/we want it now. You/we want us to consider new ideas and incorporate them in the program to make the project better... as SOON as we can. The market is changing and so must we. But you/we don't want any schedule slips... Even with the softening of our urgency (no more 20 hour work days) and all the changes we have made and are making, we are still hoping for late summer of this year to begin the rollout of the new lineup. We have only one wild-card that could irritate all of us... the ASIC. But we are taking every precaution we can to not have that bite us. But please remember that more features and keeping the schedule are mutually exclusive. At some point, you/we have to pick one or the other. After this latest round of changes... we are done. If you want more... there is a price to pay in the schedule. Jim" More at http://sKarlets.com Actually, there isn't.... And, (due to an oversight I'm sure), you have failed to mention that sKarlets.com appears to be owned or at least operated by your good self <_< If there's anything more boring than listening to Jannard's endless spruiking about products that don't exist yet, it's somebody else uncritically parroting Jannard's endless spruiking about products that don't exist yet. He has his own account here; if he wants to make announcements (or "announcements") I'm sure he is perfectly capable of doing it himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul James Savarese Posted April 3, 2009 Author Share Posted April 3, 2009 Actually, there isn't.... And, (due to an oversight I'm sure), you have failed to mention that sKarlets.com appears to be owned or at least operated by your good self <_< If there's anything more boring than listening to Jannard's endless spruiking about products that don't exist yet, it's somebody else uncritically parroting Jannard's endless spruiking about products that don't exist yet. He has his own account here; if he wants to make announcements (or "announcements") I'm sure he is perfectly capable of doing it himself. You clearly have something personal against Mr. Jannard. Like I said before, this is a Red topic area and the post I posted by Jim Jannard is news. Many of us DO want to hear what the latest developments are with Red. And yes I do own sKarlets.com, and part of my interest is blogging about Red related news. I am not paid whatsoever for my efforts nor have I made 1 cent with my site, which I hope to change in the future - I am not ashamed to admit. I am sure Jim is capable of posting here himself, but a forum is a place to discuss what is relevant to the topic just as the New York Times reports what Bloomberg said at a press conference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Keith Walters Posted April 3, 2009 Premium Member Share Posted April 3, 2009 Many of us DO want to hear what the latest developments are with Red. Yes, so what's stopping them from visiting REDUSER? :huh: Why do you feel it necessary to Spam this forum? You didn't offer any comment or analysis (admittedly pretty difficult if you don't know anything other than what is in the press release). All you posted was a word-for-word from Reduser. Let's be quite clear on this: The RED itself is interesting The Scarlet has the potential to be interesting. Regurgitated manufacturer's hype is not interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul James Savarese Posted April 3, 2009 Author Share Posted April 3, 2009 Mods, please do me a favor and delete this thread as it is being categorized as spam. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Keith Walters Posted April 3, 2009 Premium Member Share Posted April 3, 2009 Mods, please do me a favor and delete this thread as it is being categorized as spam. Thank you. Yeah, shut it down at once; people are denying the Divinity of the RED again! Honestly, I don't know what this world is coming to. Oh by the way, what is the actual release date for the Scarlet? Beggin' your pardon, but: "we are still hoping for late summer of this year to begin the rollout of the new lineup." is a bit vague for us Scientific folks... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul James Savarese Posted April 3, 2009 Author Share Posted April 3, 2009 Yeah, shut it down at once; people are denying the Divinity of the RED again!Honestly, I don't know what this world is coming to. Oh by the way, what is the actual release date for the Scarlet? Beggin' your pardon, but: "we are still hoping for late summer of this year to begin the rollout of the new lineup." is a bit vague for us Scientific folks... You are an butt huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul James Savarese Posted April 3, 2009 Author Share Posted April 3, 2009 You are an butt huh? butt = a-s-s-h-o-l-e I don't need you to reiterate for me. Go find something better to rant about Aussie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul James Savarese Posted April 3, 2009 Author Share Posted April 3, 2009 (edited) You are an butt huh? Edited April 3, 2009 by Paul James Savarese Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul James Savarese Posted April 3, 2009 Author Share Posted April 3, 2009 Keith - I apologize. My emotions are getting the best of me as my brother passed away tragically last week. I better cool off. You make valid points and make a good argument. My best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Adrian Sierkowski Posted April 3, 2009 Premium Member Share Posted April 3, 2009 Firstly, Paul, it's important not to go off the handle on people 'round here. Most of us don't take it too well. Keith is a very valuable member here with a lot of insight. That being said, I am sorry for your brother, never a good thing. When I lost my father, lord knows I wasn't exactly the stablest boat at the dock. And I certainly hope your apology can be accepted. I want to speak more about my own "issue" with red, if you all will allow me. Perhaps it'll generate some change... though I'm doubtful This biggest problem with this particular "voice from above" marketing model is that I, as a business person, can't work a RED product into any up-coming plans. How much do I have to set aside for a kit? How much should I rent it for? What even IS a Scarlet Kit? How much does it add to my insurance, and insurance payment? What kind of upgrades in storage, editorial will I need to make? With other cameras, we have an idea, a reference point, but with a scarlet, well we have the REDOne, but at the same time, even that can't compare to what's coming now. Even down to lenses.. Can I PL mount a 2/3"? How do I monitor? What will 16gb get me? Biggest problem of all, however, is the forum there.. which I've given up on reading, because I can't find the information I want. And I dare not ask, after seeing what, questioning can bring up. It's not the same with any other camera system I've seen. They're announced, and when they are, we have specs/prices/configurations (most of the time). Now, I'm all for customer input.. but if these cameras are on the horizon for this summer.. well then.. many of us are going to NEED to begin retooling for them NOW. If I have to install a new NAS, or begin to assemble RAID Arrays, I'll need to know how many I'll need. I'll need to know which lenses I can use on the camera, and which I'll have to buy, the weight of the thing (for proper tripod heads) whether or not my mattebox will fit it, etc etc etc. This isn't bashing the camera, mind you, rather this wonky "rumor mill," b/s. I don't need to wade through 20 posts of "get some sleep," just to get to a further explanation of what they mean by modular. It may be a pet project, hobby, something cool, big chance, etc, but for many old and new, it is an investment. Hate me as you all will, I don't care. That's my stance on it all . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Keith Walters Posted April 3, 2009 Premium Member Share Posted April 3, 2009 Keith - I apologize. My emotions are getting the best of me as my brother passed away tragically last week. I better cool off. You make valid points and make a good argument. My best. Sorry to hear about your brother. No need to apologise, I have had far worse things thrown at me both on and off line. Some of the RED-related discussions here have descended into the most ludicrous flaming matches until they eventually get closed down. I never take any of it seriously, but I confess sometimes I can't resist taking the piss out of certain posters here who seem to regard criticism of the RED as a criticism of themselves. Perhaps it's not the most appropriate behaviour for an Internet forum, but some people here are so intractably impervious to sarcasm, I just can't help myself. In your currently distressed state you did unfortunately come across like another one of those, which explains the hostile reception. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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