Serge Teulon Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 A friend emailed me this link and I thought that it would be of general interest to everyone in here. http://saturnic.livejournal.com/174828.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristian Schumacher Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 A friend emailed me this link and I thought that it would be of general interest to everyone in here. http://saturnic.livejournal.com/174828.html WOW!!!! Thanks for that. The quality of those (late 30´s?) photos is amazing! The best I have ever seen in colour.. Do you know where they are from? Some very much look like they have been the inspiration for several scenes from Quentin Tarantino`s last disaster (sorry... not the cinematography but the content......) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leo Anthony Vale Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 Thanks for that. The quality of those (late 30´s?) photos is amazing! The best I have ever seen in colour.. Do you know where they are from? Go to Google Images. Search for '1930s germany' in the LIFE images. These photos are by Hugo Jaeger. The captions there will tell you what they are of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Chris Keth Posted October 14, 2009 Premium Member Share Posted October 14, 2009 (edited) Go to Google Images. Search for '1930s germany' in the LIFE images. These photos are by Hugo Jaeger. The captions there will tell you what they are of. Another good place to peruse is the national archives' flicker photostream. Last I knew they boasted around many thousands of images from the national archives. Edited October 14, 2009 by Chris Keth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serge Teulon Posted October 15, 2009 Author Share Posted October 15, 2009 Those pics look like they're a two colour process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Holland Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 They must be Agfacolor , which after the war suddenly turned into the Eastman Color process !! cant imagine how that happened !!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dominic Case Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 They must be Agfacolor , which after the war suddenly turned into the Eastman Color process !! cant imagine how that happened !!!!!!!! I used to have a copy of the technical report that was written after Allied technicians went into the Agfa factory in the days after the war and "obtained" all the information on the manufacturing and developing processes from the German scientists. It was typed up and copied by Gestetner machine, and circulated through various allied Government Information Departments. I have no idea how much (if any) more info went to Eastman Kodak, or how many of the German scientists ended up in the US. Certainly Agfacolor was well ahead of Eastman in the 1940s though, with the first feature being shot in Germany around 1940 (against the protestations of their chief researchers who said it wasn't ready yet). Eastmancolor arrived in 1950. Agfa itself was split up,and its patents were anybody's: the main factory ended up in the Eastern bloc, the exisitng stockpile of negative stock was used for shooting features at Barrandov in Prague, Agfa-like stock was manufactured in Russia as Sovcolor and the Western part of the operation was absorbed into Gevaert (Belgium). Kodachrome reversal was inroduced in 1935, and Agfacolor reversal was introduced in 1936. Both were three-colour processes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serge Teulon Posted October 16, 2009 Author Share Posted October 16, 2009 That's really interesting... I had no concept about pioneering stocks like these and the responses have made me research and learn more. What I would like to also know is, why does the fact that Agfacolor, with its multi emulsion layered structure, not reproduce exact colours? Where as with Kodachrome, as it was added in the process, it did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dominic Case Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 I generally see it as a miracle that colour stocks reproduce anything like as accurately as they do. In an integral tripack emulsion like Agfacolor, Ektachrome, or the colour negative stocks, the colours are formed by dyes that only attain their colour when they react with the end-product of the silver development. In other words, the oxidised developing agent is activated so that it changes the colour of the dyes to yellow,magenta or cyan. That is pretty amazing. Then you want not just any old cyan (and yellow, etc) but one with exactly the right colour characteristics. And it has to be capable of being carried in the emulsion, inert until it is woken up in the developer. And it mustn't fade, or react with the chemicals in the adjacent layers. There's more - but you get the drift. It's a pretty special set of chemicals. I don't know, but maybe Eastman found they could get dyes that were a better colour if they weren't in the film to start with, but were absorbed by the emulsion during the development process (the Kodachrome process). Purely a guess though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Chris Keth Posted October 17, 2009 Premium Member Share Posted October 17, 2009 I don't know, but maybe Eastman found they could get dyes that were a better colour if they weren't in the film to start with, but were absorbed by the emulsion during the development process (the Kodachrome process). Purely a guess though. Or perhaps better dye density. I don't know what affect the earlier steps of processing might have on embedded dyes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serge Teulon Posted October 19, 2009 Author Share Posted October 19, 2009 You're right Dominic. If you really think about it, it is absolutely amazing how the whole process represents the colours as the eye, in some cases, sees it. Specially as there are so many stages where the film could be 'tricked'. A better dye density could be the thing....but it would be very interesting to hear/read an actual bonafied reason as to why it reacts the way it does. In both cases... Anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Chris Keth Posted October 19, 2009 Premium Member Share Posted October 19, 2009 You're right Dominic. If you really think about it, it is absolutely amazing how the whole process represents the colours as the eye, in some cases, sees it. Specially as there are so many stages where the film could be 'tricked'. A better dye density could be the thing....but it would be very interesting to hear/read an actual bonafied reason as to why it reacts the way it does. In both cases... Anyone? John Pytlak would know. I miss that guy. B) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member John Sprung Posted October 19, 2009 Premium Member Share Posted October 19, 2009 All I get in that link are little red x's. What happened to all German patents and copyrights from the Third Reich is that they went into public domain under the Enemy Property Act of 1945 in the U.K., and the Public Domain Act of 1945 in the U.S. Something similar happened with Soviet IP, everything prior to January 1, 1954 is PD. So, ice cream truck vendors theoretically should be free to use "Kaitoucha" and "Horst Wessel Leid" ;-) Technicolor is best known for their beautiful three strip separation process, but they were well aware from the beginning that a single strip color system would be a bunch easier to use. Leonard T. Troland of Technicolor applied for a single-strip patent in 1921, and it was granted in 1931. This was an omnibus patent that covered damn near everything that had a ghost of a chance of working. Meanwhile, Mannes and Godowski at Kodak also had a good working single strip color process. It was the expiration of the Troland patent in 1948 that cleared the way for all the single strip multi-layer processes. -- J.S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member John Sprung Posted October 20, 2009 Premium Member Share Posted October 20, 2009 Those pics look like they're a two colour process. I got them to open at home. The two color look may be due to fading -- one of the primaries is gone. Clearly they're not all WWII era -- the one of Paula Hitler's grave could be no older than 1960. -- J.S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dominic Case Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 It was the expiration of the Troland patent in 1948 that cleared the way for all the single strip multi-layer processes. -- J.S. Ah! A happy coincidence that the Agfa technology was available at just the right time :blink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serge Teulon Posted October 20, 2009 Author Share Posted October 20, 2009 John Pytlak would know. I miss that guy. B) That was exactly my thoughts as I was writing my last post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leo Anthony Vale Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 What happened to all German patents and copyrights from the Third Reich is that they went into public domain under the Enemy Property Act of 1945 in the U.K., and the Public Domain Act of 1945 in the U.S. Something similar happened with Soviet IP, everything prior to January 1, 1954 is PD. So, ice cream truck vendors theoretically should be free to use "Kaitoucha" and "Horst Wessel Leid" ;-) A lot of Soviet composers had the business sense to publish outside of the Soviet Union. So many Prokofiev pieces have British or French copyrights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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