35mm film lab

chooser · January 5, 2005

hi looking for a lab to process approx 20,000ft of 35mm footage, just neg develop. Any recommendations on labs, deals, what to watch out for etc. thanks

oh and how do i change my user name in this forum cheers

GeorgeSelinsky · January 5, 2005

hi looking for a lab to process approx 20,000ft of 35mm footage, just neg develop. Any recommendations on labs, deals, what to watch out for etc. thanks

oh and how do i change my user name in this forum cheers

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Well it depends where you are, really. Lab Link gave me a pretty good rate, they're in NYC. RGB labs is the cheapest out in Los Angeles. Labs that aren't in NY or LA are going to be less flexible about bargaining, in my experience.

I came to Lab Link and told them I was shooting 20-30,000 feet for my feature. I ended up doing over 60,000 feet, so be more ambitious in your footage count. You'll probably end up going over anyway.

- G.

chooser · January 5, 2005

I can only access the westcoast ...... so will give RGB a calll thanks for the advice ... appreciated ... oh with out getting in the details .... whats a ball park per ft rate?

GeorgeSelinsky · January 5, 2005

RGB quoted me 0.10/ft plus $8 per 1000' reel video prep charge when I called them. The guy on the phone sounded like he wanted me to leave him alone.

I called some place about video transfer, I think it was Todd or something like that. They had their own lab and were willing to match RGB I think.

You really gotta bargain around and have them compete for your business, i.e. "They are willing to do it for X per foot. I may have you do my transfer though..." then you get "Oh, we'll match their per foot rate and give you a good deal on transfer too..." then you say "Hmmm. Let me talk to my producer about that. Sounds like a possibility". Then call back later "Well, the other place is willing to go down to X per foot" and then see what they say. Be nice and cool, don't be a high minded snobby schmuck or a Mr. Oh-yes-thats-a-steal-whatever-you-say - neither will get you a really good deal. Also, don't let them rush you to close the deal. They all want a handshake right away and are afraid of you calling another place up and getting a better deal. Never agree on the first phonecall.

Also be careful, don't fib about competing prices too much because these places do call each other up incognito and try to get prices every now and then just to know what the competition is doing. If you push them too far you'll get the "Well why don't you go do it there, then?" answer. Also, some high brow places will use excuses like "Nah, that place has crappy quality and we don't consider them competitors". In both cases it basically means "We're not that hungry right now, sorry". In reality production has slowed down in certain cities and you can take advantage of this to get good prices.

In most cases, only the shy pay book price - the kind that walk into a lab with trepidation and have only one thing on their mind, "Did I get an exposure?". Student rates are really the starting rates, and the feature film rates are considerably lower. I've gotten burned by labs in the past (Guffanti comes to mind), so I became pretty aggressive about cutting good bargains. It's only fair, if someone else gets it why shouldn't I?

- G.

Edited January 5, 2005 by GeorgeSelinsky

chooser · January 5, 2005

the balance of the film will be shot in about 9 -10 weeks then will be heading through LA, figured might as well process there. I can get good telecine rates in other cities but around "10cents" per foot before cutting a deal / rate is hard to beat. thanks for your time ..... now just need to find a hotel .... cheers

Dirk DeJonghe · January 5, 2005

I am sure Dominic will join in as well, but I can tell you there are not many places in a film lab where you can cut corners.

Sure, i can hire cheap labor, use old equipment, never invest in new technology and let things run until the place burns down, sinks in the mud or closes down for lack of customers.

Please realize that the lab is one of the places where your entire film can be ruined in a few seconds. Improperly threaded cleaning machine or printer, misplaced reels etc.

I am all for charging a fair price for a fair product.

James Visiano · January 5, 2005

On average, what is a good price for processing 16mm/35mm per foot?

AND

What is a good pice for Printing or Telecine 16mm/35mm per foot?

Webster Colcord · January 5, 2005

I concur with what Dirk said, you want to go with a lab that you know and trust, or get a positive referrals for. I've heard horror stories about neg continuing to "develop" in the can (because the lab didn't properly fix it). You may get cheaper processing, but in the end you get what you pay for.

Also it depends on the lab technician whom you work with. Mike & Spike's Festival Of Animation used Crest Labs in L.A., and I had some negs sent there and was never overwhelmed with their prints. They did a lot of blow-ups from 16 for the fest and what came out was some new form of art because it looks so off from the original (incredibly contrasty and blue). However later I read that they were the exclusive lab that did special processing (Ektachrome as Negative) for "Three Kings". In the article the director was saying that there was one particular labtech there who was able to produce the results they wanted.

And then there's that famous saying for a certain lab in LA: "Can't Find It, Can't Fix It, CFI care!" That was in the late 80's, I've heard that they've gotten a lot better since then.

I've had great results from Teknifilm in Portland (though I'm not sure if they're still going), Alpha Cine in Seattle, and Monaco in San Fran. Also Forde labs in Seattle do a lot of specialty processing- a friend of mine uses them for all of his 16, and he's always gotten good results. All of those labs are very willing to work with indies because they don't get a lot of footage from the major studios. Also Downstream editorial in Portland has a Spirit Datacine and probably offers the lowest rate on the West Coast for Spirit.

James Visiano · January 5, 2005

An answer to my question(s) would be a big help and greatly appreciated.

chooser · January 6, 2005

thanks to all that have taken the time to answer ..... to clarify things, I am not looking for or asking about the cheapest progessing lab, I just wanted some recommendations from people who have used LABs on the west coast and have been very happy with both the rate and the result. I am not from the US and there is a risk involved for me to process there (west coast), but I am passing through at the end of the shoot and the rates are lower and this is a low budget shoot .... AGAIN any advice or recommendations are much appreciated.

GeorgeSelinsky · January 6, 2005

In today's day the competition that labs have to face against each other has increased. Lots of smaller labs have closed down, and you really have increasingly a situation where there are a few big players fighting it out for business. Labs in major cities are pretty adamant about keeping their reputation intact. That said, bad stuff does happen (and it happens, by the way, at expensive labs not more rarely in some cases - I've heard of some real horror stories from some of those snobbish labs that say they're the greatest), but I've been to labs that were considered "bargain basement" and they have done very well for me.

The biggest key here is to make sure you keep track of your invoices - in my experience funnier things happen there than with your negative. My biggest problem thusfar has not been with negative processing (I mean, it is a crucial process but if a lab isn't running their ECN-2 to spec they will get in a lot of hot water fast - and if a lab gets a bad reputation with that I'm sure negative insurance underwriters would take notice), but with video transfer. It is here where I've had to get on the phone often and argue.

- G.

Edited January 6, 2005 by GeorgeSelinsky

Webster Colcord · January 6, 2005

Monaco Labs in San Fran, .21/foot process, .38/foot bestlight workprint (figure in a few extra bucks for their PG&E energy surcharge). And of course it's a 100ft. minimum.

I've never done video workprints; but I can tell you that any supervised telecine rate at around $300/ hr. is quite cheap these days (that's your hour, not an hour of film). The last time I got a quote from Downstream on the Spirit transfer it was $500/ hr. but I'm sure it's higher now. Zoetrope in San Fran advertises their telecine to local filmmakers, and I did a half hour there a couple of years ago for around $200 including tapestock, but it's very limited. It's an old system meant for video dailies and can't do on-the-fly repo's. But it's passable, plus it's a little bit of fun seeing Coppola's place.

GeorgeSelinsky · January 6, 2005

Monaco Labs in San Fran, .21/foot process, .38/foot bestlight workprint (figure in a few extra bucks for their PG&E energy surcharge). And of course it's a 100ft. minimum.

I've never done video workprints; but I can tell you that any supervised telecine rate at around $300/ hr. is quite cheap these days (that's your hour, not an hour of film).

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The fact that Monaco is the only lab in San Francisco (I think) makes it easy for them to charge higher rates. You can get half of that rate in Los Angeles, like I mentioned before (and also in NY). If you were filming a lot in SF, it would probably be worthwhile to ship the film down to LA, it's not that long of a distance to have the film sent - you could even have someone drive a van with the film down there every few days (8 hours each direction). I'm thinking this over myself because I may end up living in SF in the future, or at least film something there.

- G.

Edited January 6, 2005 by GeorgeSelinsky

Wendell_Greene · January 6, 2005

I'd recommend you give Dave Grove at Deluxe a phone call. They recently developed my 35mm negative for a music video and they did an excellent job at a great price and I'll definitely work with them again. [i dream of the day I'll work with the incredibly knowledgeable and professional Ms. Beverly Wood]

Another lab I've used and can recommend working with is Foto-Kem in Burbank, especially friendly toward the indie/student filmmaker.

John Sprung · January 6, 2005

hi looking for a lab to process approx 20,000ft
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Talk to Laser-Pacific, Technicolor, DeLuxe, and FotoKem. If you want develop and telecine under one roof, go with Laser or FotoKem. As for prices, it's like asking how much to pay for winter wheat or pork belly futures.

-- J.S.