IBBARU has been banned

[Guest stevie wara]

For those who haven't been following the thread that moderator Stephen Williams created when given a "timeout" over at reduser, you might be interested to know that Tim Tyler (the owner of cinematography.com) has locked down said thread after having been called out for secretly removing posts that did not fit his particular tastes.

 

He has also suspended one contributor's account.

 

I personally was enjoying the thread. Despite a few rough moments it was generally quite productive and civil. Jim Jannard had even begun interacting on a regular basis and I found his motivations towards a d-cinema camera "respectful of film's characteristics" compelling; and I happen to love film and wish to see it remain indefinitely.

 

I'm only a newbee on this forum, but I'm afraid I won't be sticking around. I have possibly committed a few faux pas during my short stay, so if I have managed to offend anyone here then please accept my apologies in parting.

 

cinematography.com is not an open forum. It is owned by a single individual and can ultimately only reflect views that agree with that individual.

 

Here's a current events link that pretty well sums it up for me:

http://www.cinematography.com/index.php?ac...amp;event_id=57

 

Yeah Tim, happy birthday to you.

[Tom Jensen]

It's his forum, you play by his rules. It's not too difficult to understand.

[K Borowski]

Tim is a very fair, hands-off guy, in general.

 

 

He lets a lot more s&it slide here than other sites do.

[Guest close my account]

Tim is a very fair, hands-off guy, in general.

 

He lets a lot more s&it slide here than other sites do.

What other sites modify and remove member posts without any mention? I would truly like to know so that I can avoid them too.

 

This wasn't just a case of David Rakoczy (a paying sustaining member I might add) getting run-over; Keneu Luca had a poetic post removed, and Ruairi Robinson's reply got axed as well, as did Luca's reply to that!

 

Adrian Sierkowski reported losing posts, although I think he is more of the opinion that it was some sort of network glitch and not the more likely case of clandestine hack edits by the site administrator.

 

My question to you Karl, is how do you think you might have reacted if you had gotten the same treatment as David Rakoczy? And more importantly, how many remaining members here do you think would have AT LEAST stood up for you and say what had happened was wrong, and that it shouldn't of happened?

[Will Earl]

Isn't Reduser known for deleting posts and banning users?

 

Anyway I'm in agreement with Karl on this, as far as forums go the moderators and administrator are pretty good at being hands off even in fairly heated discussions. Oddly enough I think this is the first time I've agreed with Karl on something :) .

 

It's unfortunate that this rare instance of a moderator cleaning up a thread has left such a bitter taste in your mouth. I'd try a bit harder to convince you that this is pretty good and open place for discussing cinematography, but it sounds like your mind is made up already.

[K Borowski]

Oddly enough I think this is the first time I've agreed with Karl on something :) .

:)

 

 

Actually JK JK Will.

 

Honestly, if I've made that big an impression upon you you're taking me too seriously. My biting sarcasm doesn't translate across cyberspace, or across language/regional dialects either, despite liberal use of emoticons.

 

 

"Close my account" (David?, friend of David's?), I hope David's being suspended from this site was a temporary one, but despite the fact that I would consider him a friend and colleague, he and others have been out of line on that thread and some others before.

 

David has the tendency at times to turn everything to politics, a trend shared by others here unfortunately. I'm all for the off-topic rant, but that thread degenerated into talk of politics, censorship, liberal agendas, sexual acts with film cameras, and deification of both film and digital media.

 

 

If you want a list of other internet fora that censor/edit content, I'd say just about all of the too many I've been around do that. Cinematography.com is by-and-large, the BEST, unless you are talking about the totally mundane social sites that are a waste of time anyway.

 

 

If I had been banned, I probably would have deserved it. Lord knows I have said things on here that were in poor taste, to say the least, but I'd like to think that my "BS to useful-information" ratio is 1:1 or better. There are times Tim has yelled at me, and I've deserved them; I appreciate all the people on here that embrace me, despite my flaws.

Edited February 20, 2010 by Karl Borowski

[Chris Millar]

There are times Tim has yelled at me, and I've deserved them; I appreciate all the people on here that embrace me, despite my flaws.

Better to be yelled at than surreptitiously edited out of history ;)

 

I had some posts deleted here a long whiles back - came as a bit of a surprise - still here tho, as at least on occasion it can be of assistance with technical matters and time passing whilst idle at work (though never whilst off work as a rule:D)

[K Borowski]

I'm going to give Tim the benefit of the doubt that perhaps the forum software doesn't allow him to leave trace of editing, at least without giving the opportunity to at least edit it back.

 

 

Let's remember that a lot of the moderators, including Tim, are working industry professionals. This is a passion, a hobby for them, not a huge source of income.

[John Sprung]

OK, I gotta ask a dumb question: What's IBBARU?

 

 

 

 

 

-- J.S.

[David Mullen ASC]

This is one of the LEAST moderated sites out there, so I'm always amazed when people start complaining about their freedom of speech being curtailed on a privately-owned forum, particularly this one where a lot of off-topic stuff is allowed to run on.

 

I guess "close my account" guy is Stevie Wara, he's only one of two people I had on my "ignore posts" list so it took me awhile to figure out who started this topic. I had enough of his arrogance regarding anamorphic framing and his lack of respect for all the artists who have used it in the past. You can guess who the other person is on my "ignore list"... but it's someone who tends to hijack threads with the same personal agenda over and over again.

 

David Rakovsky, on the other hand... I missed whatever post got his account closed, but I only had a problem with Dave when he got into his right-winger soapbox, but I cut him slack usually because plenty of us get on our left-winger soapbox and the two groups usually sort of cancel each other out within a few posts. Trying to see things from his perspective, I'm sure he got just as annoyed with some of my politics as I did with his. But he was a working professional and hence valuable on this site, so I hope someday he rejoins us.

 

We have ALL required a bit of forgiveness now and then, from other members and from the Almighty (Tim Tyler?)

[Keneu Luca]

OK, I gotta ask a dumb question: What's IBBARU?

 

 

 

 

 

-- J.S.

It's the acronym for the thread that got sh1+canned.

I've Been Banned At Red User.

 

Althouh the actual thread was "from red user", not "at."

 

But now IBBARU is taking on something of a Watergate identity. Or maybe a new verb: "Hey, the Mods just IBBARUed me!"

[Guest close my account]

I'd try a bit harder to convince you that this is pretty good and open place for discussing cinematography, but it sounds like your mind is made up already.

I haven't much frequented other such sites, so I will take your word for it. I'm just very disappointed.

 

Honestly, if I've made that big an impression upon you you're taking me too seriously. My biting sarcasm doesn't translate across cyberspace, or across language/regional dialects either, despite liberal use of emoticons.

Yes, poking fun and sarcastic remarks is a tricky thing. Found that out myself.

 

...Lord knows I have said things on here that were in poor taste, to say the least, but I'd like to think that my "BS to useful-information" ratio is 1:1 or better.

Hahaha. That is very funny. I know by "BS" you must mean "Bad Stuff" and not that other phrase.

[Tim O'Connor]

This is one of the LEAST moderated sites out there, so I'm always amazed when people start complaining about their freedom of speech being curtailed on a privately-owned forum, particularly this one where a lot of off-topic stuff is allowed to run on.

 

I guess "close my account" guy is Stevie Wara, he's only one of two people I had on my "ignore posts" list so it took me awhile to figure out who started this topic. I had enough of his arrogance regarding anamorphic framing and his lack of respect for all the artists who have used it in the past. You can guess who the other person is on my "ignore list"... but it's someone who tends to hijack threads with the same personal agenda over and over again.

 

David Rakovsky, on the other hand... I missed whatever post got his account closed, but I only had a problem with Dave when he got into his right-winger soapbox, but I cut him slack usually because plenty of us get on our left-winger soapbox and the two groups usually sort of cancel each other out within a few posts. Trying to see things from his perspective, I'm sure he got just as annoyed with some of my politics as I did with his. But he was a working professional and hence valuable on this site, so I hope someday he rejoins us.

 

We have ALL required a bit of forgiveness now and then, from other members and from the Almighty (Tim Tyler?)

 

 

For a "general" discussion thread, general about cinematography, I think that we get to discuss a broad range of items and issues which sometimes may be so tangentially related to cinematography that they probably should be in off-topic.

 

David R., I hope that you return. I want to hear more stories about using arc lights.

[Guest close my account]

...I had enough of his arrogance regarding anamorphic framing and his lack of respect for all the artists who have used it in the past. ..

I don't know why you interpreted my desire to discuss 2.40 framings vs less wide aspect ratios as arrogant. If I disagree with a particular choice of aspect ratio that shouldn't imply that I disrespect the artists involved. I don't understand why you have made such a huge leap of judgment.

[Thomas James]

I really do not think it gets any better than cinematography.com

Tim has told me that he respects people's opinions and freedom of speech as long as they do not threaten others. Recently I challenged Jim Jannard and told him that he needs to use a more natural anthropomorphic sensor design based on a radial logarithmic polar or circular arrangement of pixels that more closely matches the retina of the human eye rather than the boring square box tile pattern of conventional sensors. Jim Jannard was shocked when I said this nevertheless what I said makes sense if he wants to win over the film community which demands a more natural look rather than the artificial digital look. Now had this been another forum I would have been told by the moderators that I do not know what I am talking about even though there is a wealth of information about this subject simply because these exotic sensors have never been commercially produced and exist only in laboratories.

[John Sprung]

It's the acronym for the thread that got sh1+canned.

I've Been Banned At Red User.

 

Althouh the actual thread was "from red user", not "at."

 

Thanks -- the "at" vs. "from" certainly flummoxed my cryptanalytic abilities. ;-)

 

 

 

 

-- J.S.

[Brian Dzyak]

I really do not think it gets any better than cinematography.com

Tim has told me that he respects people's opinions and freedom of speech as long as they do not threaten others. Recently I challenged Jim Jannard and told him that he needs to use a more natural anthropomorphic sensor design based on a radial logarithmic polar or circular arrangement of pixels that more closely matches the retina of the human eye rather than the boring square box tile pattern of conventional sensors. Jim Jannard was shocked when I said this nevertheless what I said makes sense if he wants to win over the film community which demands a more natural look rather than the artificial digital look. Now had this been another forum I would have been told by the moderators that I do not know what I am talking about even though there is a wealth of information about this subject simply because these exotic sensors have never been commercially produced and exist only in laboratories.

 

 

I think from now on, I'll use this as my title instead of Cameraman or DP or Videographer:

 

Aesthetically mindful on set image acquisition engineer, specializing in real and fictitious events, for theatrical, television, and DVD use utilizing natural anthropomorphic sensor design based on a radial logarithmic polar and circular arrangement of pixels via square box tile pattern of sensors in a box with a hole in it.

 

;)

[K Borowski]

David Rakovsky, on the other hand... I missed whatever post got his account closed, but I only had a problem with Dave when he got into his right-winger soapbox, but I cut him slack usually because plenty of us get on our left-winger soapbox and the two groups usually sort of cancel each other out within a few posts. Trying to see things from his perspective, I'm sure he got just as annoyed with some of my politics as I did with his. But he was a working professional and hence valuable on this site, so I hope someday he rejoins us.

 

We have ALL required a bit of forgiveness now and then, from other members and from the Almighty (Tim Tyler?)

 

I'm pretty sure David is suspended, not banned for life.

 

With regards to right-wing vs. left-wing arguments, I figure David R. is so outnumbered here, with Brian Dzyak and this horde of you other Hollywood west-coasters that he HAS to be really outspoken to make up for being so outnumbered ;)

 

 

I think where he crossed the line was personally attacking Tim. T^2 took it personally; I don't blame him.

 

 

Yeah, I guess you are right that it's Stevie Wara due to his last post. Can you see him now that he's changed his name? You realize, Stevie, that you are creating a paradox every time you use your user name AND violating forum rules at the same time, right?

[Freya Black]

Let's remember that a lot of the moderators, including Tim, are working industry professionals. This is a passion, a hobby for them, not a huge source of income.

 

I think this is spot on. Tim doesn't even post here that often. Starting Cinematography.com might well be one of those things that seemed like a good idea at the time but ends up being, well, a bit wearing at times.

 

It must be kind of galling to be called a jerk when you feel like you are giving your time and energy to help people, as Tim does in running this forum. I think it's understandable if Tim felt hurt and angry.

 

As I've said before in my own life. I don't mind being used, it's being used and abused that I really hate!

 

While it's sad that David ended up getting himself banned, he should have known what he was getting himself into when he started posting on that paticular subject (I certainly was aware for my own part but considered it worth the risk if there was a chance for change on that score), and also to be fair, he lost control of his temper. Calling someone a jerk is obviously abusive.

 

I think the reason that people were a little shocked was because cinematography.com is usually very hands off no matter how silly people get.

 

As Thomas and David have suggsted ciny.com is probably about as good as it gets and in the past I've always been impressed how people with wildly differing political views have managed to get on so well. Outside of one subforum I think it's rare for threads to end up locked and usually they have run their course by the time they get there! ;)

 

love

 

Freya

[Freya Black]

David has the tendency at times to turn everything to politics, a trend shared by others here unfortunately. I'm all for the off-topic rant, but that thread degenerated into talk of politics, censorship, liberal agendas, sexual acts with film cameras, and deification of both film and digital media.

 

Actually, you'd be suprised, that thread was actually preety on topic and positive for threads in that subforum. Check out the archive! It's usual for posts there to turn quite nasty.

 

As for being off topic, we didn't really get into gun control, religion, nazis, or the Kennedy assasination in that thread (Have I missed out any of our usuals?). In fact it seemed more like film, chocolate, love, sex which all seem quite positive to me. :) YMMV

 

love

 

Freya

[Mike Lary]

In fact it seemed more like film, chocolate, love, sex which all seem quite positive to me. :) YMMV

 

None of which have anything to do with the original topic... A good percent of that thread was off-topic nonsense meant to make light of the subject, subvert the discussion, and goad people into heated arguments that ended in name calling. I'd rather not have to wade through pages of self-indulgent prose and wisecracks to find valid information in a thread that clearly was providing valid technical information that could benefit the community.

 

Forum members should think of this environment less like the room they're sitting in as they type and more like a room in Tim's house. He's kind enough to let us gather and have discussions while he's at home AND while he's away at work. We should respect the rules of his house.

[Thomas James]

Actually I would not be so quick to dismiss. Going to a theatre is all a part of the dating and the romance of human courtship and it is not surprising that artists should demand the most creative mediums to work with. However it is not suprising that a lot of artists object to replacing their film medium with the harsh cold reality of digital which can only capture this reality in square boxed tiles composing of ones and zeroes. How much better it would be that if there was a true electronic cinematography that it be based on the exotic tiled mosaic patterns of the rods and cones of the human eye and that it would bring an element of artistry and creativity to the electronic medium. So it is not suprising that artists should love the work they do rather than being considered cold hearted digital technicians.

[Freya Black]

None of which have anything to do with the original topic... A good percent of that thread was off-topic nonsense meant to make light of the subject, subvert the discussion, and goad people into heated arguments that ended in name calling. I'd rather not have to wade through pages of self-indulgent prose and wisecracks to find valid information in a thread that clearly was providing valid technical information that could benefit the community.

 

Forum members should think of this environment less like the room they're sitting in as they type and more like a room in Tim's house. He's kind enough to let us gather and have discussions while he's at home AND while he's away at work. We should respect the rules of his house.

 

Yes but a good deal of any thread on here is off topic nonsense.

 

Having said that I like the sense of humour and discussion that doesn't take itself too seriously here. I also like people discussing technical matters and it was great to see that happening so well in that thread.

 

To be fair tho the thread wasn't started to provide valid technical information, that was just people trying to make things good and I thought that people were mostly doing a good job considering, so in a way it was the technical information that was subverting the discussion thankfully.

 

I don't know what Tims house is like or what the rules in it are as I've never been there but certainly I think people should respect each other.

[Brian Dzyak]

I'm pretty sure David is suspended, not banned for life.

 

With regards to right-wing vs. left-wing arguments, I figure David R. is so outnumbered here, with Brian Dzyak and this horde of you other Hollywood west-coasters that he HAS to be really outspoken to make up for being so outnumbered ;)

 

 

I sincerely appreciate being named. :)

 

There are more "workers" than there are those who want to promote Fascist ideals, so there will always be more of people like me than people like "them." :)

 

 

I don't really want to be "left" or "right" wing. I just try to find the truth about macro economics so that I and others can make better choices regarding our careers and lives. The first step is to be willing to see the facts regardless of how how we want the world to be. Reality can be a hard thing to take. My own book was a struggle as the publisher wanted me to be specifically "encouraging" while I merely wished to "tell it like it is." There are factions here and there (on this board and/or banned from this board) which like to suppress facts in order to propagate what THEY want "facts" to be, whether it be about economics, politics, or equipment like RED.

 

What we ALL need are just unmitigated FACTS sans marketing BS or rants about what things "should be." Like politics, the economy, and new equipment (like RED and other equipment), I and others just really want and need to know the truth and facts because what we WANT to believe about things is rarely what the reality is. I've heard a LOT of wonderful things about RED and I've heard some fairly scary stories. I can't afford to take a piece of equipment out and have it fail if I can help it. Like ANYTHING we do, I think that we all just need to know the parameters of the tools we use so we can avoid potential problems in the first place. It's our responsibility to ask questions about everything because ultimately, we're only responsible for ourselves and our own decisions.

[Paul Bruening]

People are people. Ideas lead down various paths. If the technical content of a thread is strong it won't divert even with the various emotional states of its contributors. I don't think Freya's efforts to provide some perspective hurt that thread any. Nor, do I think that the level of emotional involvement was too great. Not all people have a dry, technical relationship to their craft. I'm sorry about D.R.'s time-out. But, it won't kill him. Time heals wounds. I look forward to his return. Our moderators seem to have a good sense of when things are heading into flame-oblivion.

 

Worthy of note is that they can allow a discussion of their jobs, here, as is occurring, as moderators and not beef on that. Also, worthy of note is that this forum, generally, tries to iron out its differences socially instead of knee-jerk banning such as what occurs over at the other, oh-so paranoid site. I can't help but to feel enormous respect for all my fellow posters on that point.

 

...whatever all that's worth.